TMOHD Chapter 18: A Little Conversation

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TMOHD Chapter 18: A Little Conversation

Post by danlo »

A Little Conversation:

In chapter 18 we go from Princess Elega to Geraden to Artagel to Adept Havelock. Funny how misleading the chapter's title is-once again SRD manages to cram an amazing amout of information into a tiny space. Most chapters in the second part of TMOHD are pretty jammed packed-but this one is especially important. Here Elega and Prince Kragen's relationship and plots are fleshed out and become real as she attempts to enlist Terisa to their side. She tells Terisa that she is affecting things in ways she didn't know possible. Indeed, Terisa is beginning to become fully "real" to herself and others in chapter 18-and some folks might say, "Finally!" :D

Terisa is exerting power and changing events in Orison (even though she has no idea how) as much if not more than Elega. The next morning, massively hungover and disturbed by these turn of events, she lets Geraden into her suite and they talk about a number of things. Terisa and Geraden later go on to try to test her powers as an Imager and she (and we) learn more about mirrors, the Congery, arch-Imagers and the swordsmen that attacked Terisa and Prince Kragen than we ever have before. I'm the type of "read lead" that doesn't really use alot of quotes and tries not to run on, but this chapter is so important to the entire story that I have to. The explanations of how mirrors, Orison, Mordant and it's two neighboring countries work are essential to understanding the story, and in retrospect the foreshadowing, here, is incredible.

Geraden visits Terisa the "morning after" and starts apologizing for everything under the sun-and Terisa threatens to kick him if he "...apologizes more than once a day." They talk about her visit to Master Eremis and Terisa tells Geraden that Eremis wants her to spy on him. They talk about what happened after he was dismissed from King Joyse's chambers and Terisa dismisses it as 'hop-board' talk and can't bare to tell him that she believes Joyse is destroying Mordant on purpose, or of the number of enemies Master Quillon believes Geraden has. In fact that and some of Eremis' postulations re: Geraden's "hidden powers" make Terisa's common sense begin to waver, so she resolves to watch his actions closely.

Then they talk about Elega's visit and Terisa tells him about the plot against King Joyse, and Geraden makes a very interesting observation,
"That always worried me about her," he murmered, brooding. "I've always had the feeling she was more interested in what kings are than what they do. More interested in the power than in what the power is for. She might be capable of some pretty unscrupulous decisions."
Thinking it's usless to tell Joyse about it and probably a bad ideal to involve Castellan Lebbick, they decide to approach Argus and Ribuld about keeping a clandestine eye on Elega.

Interspered in the conversation are a number of funny moments and Terisa and Geraden begin to get back to where they where with each other-I'd still like to know what Geraden thought when Terisa said she was so hungover her head felt like a football. "What in the heck is a football?" And when they crack heads and almost kiss. Why she feels torn between Eremis and him is beyond me...maybe SRD is really getting into the female mind and sparking "the bad-boy" question... In anycase the bud of her feelings for Geraden are apparent here and her desires, period, make her grow that much more "real" to us.

SRD then takes that to to an even higher level as Terisa and Geraden begin taking about imaging, mirrors and the attack in the corridor. Geraden feels that Terisa has more power than she knows and wants to begin exploring that. He wants to take her back to the point of translation to see if she can feel anything. Before they do that Terisa harkens back to her talk before the incident with Prince Kragen and asks Geraden what an arch-Imager is. Here Geraden reveals information essential to understanding the mechanics of mirrors and imagers for the rest of the story,
"An arch-Imager is someone who has mastered what we consider the apex of translation--the ability to pass saftely through flat glass. As far as we know, only one man has ever done it--the arch-Imager Vagel.

"In theory, the difficulty is that translation changes whatever it touches. When the translation involves a passage between separate worlds--or, if Master Eremis is right"--he grimaced--"between our world and Images which are known not to exist in our world--the changes are appropriate. For instance they solve the problem of language and breathing. But when you pass through a flat glass, you don't actually go anywhere. I mean you move from place to place, but you stay in the same world. So you don't need to be changed. But you are anyway." He looked down at his hands. "It made Adept Havelock mad."

"theoretically, if you looked into a flat mirror that showed you to yourself--in other words, a mirror that was focused on the exact spot you were standing, so that you were also in the Image looking out at yourself--you would go into a kind of translation cycle, passing simultaneously back and forth between yourself and your Image, changing literally without going anywhere. Probably nobody who looked at you would be able to see the difference. But your mind would be gone. Not just mad. Taken away."
Geraden then goes on to wonder why the flat mirrors in Terisa's apartment didn't effect him, the difference between her world and his and the possibility that she may be the most powerful Imager to ever set foot in Mordant's world. He tells her that the ability to become an arch-Imager is a talent you are born with, as opposed to skill. Adept is the highest title in the skill category. Havelock earned the title because he was better at translating and better at using other peoples mirrors.

Artagel had discovered a sigil among the fallen swordmen that attacked Terisa and Prince Kragen in the corridor. The sigil proved they were Apts of the High King's Monomach and came from Cadwal. The Perdon and Prince Kragen deduced that because of that Vagel (who many thought dead) must be involved with the translation and still in league with Festen. But how could these men pass through flat glass if they're not arch-Imagers? Geraden attempts to answer that question by telling Terisa a theory of his that he's mulled over for years. It involes shaping a flat mirror's focus where you need it to be-and then translating that mirror into a normal one showing an inactive place,
"...and position it so that it fills as much of the Image as possible. And then, if the first mirror hasn't changed--and if it's actually possible to work two translations almost simultaneously--you might be able to pass through and keep your mind in one piece."

He grinned. "Ingenious, don't you think?"

"Yes." Actually, she thought it was more than ingenious: she thought it was brilliant. But some of the implications--"It would take two people wouldn't it? One to translate the other?"

"Not to go. But it would to come back. That's true of any translation."
If this was what really happened then it implicates Master Gilbur is working with Vagel and exhonerates not only Geraden but Eremis as well. Geraden also goes on to theorize that another Imaging talent might be knowing you are in a mirror's focus and wonders if Terisa can do it. To test these theories they enlist the aid af Artagel who guides them back to spot of the translation. Shunning light Terisa approaches the spot when suddenly
...a touch of cold as thin as a feather and as sharp as steel slid straight through the center of her abdomen.
Then Zombies step through the wall and when Geraden throws them down, or Artagel cuts them, monstrous coackroaches pour out of them and they go after Terisa is if they have her scent. Artagel fights them as she and Geraden try to run away--they can't, Geraden throws lamps on them and they burst into flames but the smoke almost kills them and Artagel goes down.

Havelock, who had been watching that spot since the intial incident, appears out of nowhere and rescues them. Geraden picks up Artagel and Havelock guides them into the inner reaches of Orision: past the nexus of all the secret passages, through a room full of confiscated mirrors no one knows about and into Havelock's hidden apartments. Luckily for them Havelock is having a "lucid" period and prepares a balm for Artagel. Havelock says he's seen these creatures before as part of Festen's Imaging Cabal in Carmag years ago and that they would have infected and bred inside thousands of people in Orision if they hadn't stopped them. He knows Vagel has big plans for that spot and has been watching it constantly.

Havelock verifies that the "man in black" (who got away with Gilbur in the sword attack) was Gart, The High King's Monomach and tells Terisa a story of an Augury he threw as Joyse was being born and he was "pet" Imager of a despot Cadwal ruling Orison. Two of the more interesting things it showed-in hindsight -was Joyse becoming king after a gaping hole is ripped through the side of Orision and a vision of Myste begging the Champion not to kill her.

After Artagel begins to recover and Terisa is back in her rooms Saddith tells her that the incidents in the corridor have become public knowledge, that Orison has been attacked by Imagery and that Master Eremis has been released from the dungeon. :faint:
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Post by duchess of malfi »

The carniverous cockroaches are very nasty creatures, indeed! 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

Adept Havelock in particular fascinates me in this chapter...the fact that he tells Terisa not to ask him any questions, that he knows questions trigger his looniness, indicates to me that he really is more sane than a lot of people think...and what else did his augury show???????????? And does the King know about what the augury showed about Myste???? And if it showed the King's daughters than what did it show about Elega and Torrent? Are those enough questions for you yet, Danlo? ;)

I think there is something deeper going on in Terisa's confused feelings for Eremis than a simple craving for a bad boy. Eremis seems to be a man much like her father -- a man who craves power, is very arrogant and sure of himself, and who uses women. In trying to please Eremis, I think that in part there is a very lonely and hurt little girl trying to please her father. As far as Geraden goes, she has never had the chance to know such a decent man of her own age, and quite simply, doesn't know how to act with him or feel about him. Eremis, while a complete slimedog, behaves in a way that she is used to...to break away from and reject Eremis, she would also be breaking away from her past, and rejecting the behavior of her father. And such things are easier said than done... :(
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Post by danlo »

I don't know if it showed anything specific about Elega, did it? Or at least Havelock doesn't tell us anything except for the fact that it preordained more than one daughter. What else did you think was significant in the augury?
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Post by duchess of malfi »

Well, it is certainly interesting that it shows Joyse becoming a king as an old man, after a huge injury to Orison. :) :wink:
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Post by Revan »

duchess of malfi wrote:The carniverous cockroaches are very nasty creatures, indeed! 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

Adept Havelock in particular fascinates me in this chapter...the fact that he tells Terisa not to ask him any questions, that he knows questions trigger his looniness, indicates to me that he really is more sane than a lot of people think...and what else did his augury show???????????? And does the King know about what the augury showed about Myste???? And if it showed the King's daughters than what did it show about Elega and Torrent? Are those enough questions for you yet, Danlo? ;)

I think there is something deeper going on in Terisa's confused feelings for Eremis than a simple craving for a bad boy. Eremis seems to be a man much like her father -- a man who craves power, is very arrogant and sure of himself, and who uses women. In trying to please Eremis, I think that in part there is a very lonely and hurt little girl trying to please her father. As far as Geraden goes, she has never had the chance to know such a decent man of her own age, and quite simply, doesn't know how to act with him or feel about him. Eremis, while a complete slimedog, behaves in a way that she is used to...to break away from and reject Eremis, she would also be breaking away from her past, and rejecting the behavior of her father. And such things are easier said than done... :(
That is an excellent point Duchess. A very good one infact... I was really annoyed with Terisa and how she wanted Eremis... I couldn't stand it when she went on about wanting Eremis... when she had this decent really nice guy that was head over heels in love with her. I felt like slapping her and saying "Open your eyes b*tch!" But you have put it in perspective for me Duchess... That explantion makes sense... Thanks :D

I felt sorry for Havelock in this chapter... in other chapters I didn't... I thought he was there but with no significant part. It's kind of sad that he has to work so hard to stay in one of his "lucid" moods. I hope he gets to rip the heart out of Vagels chest, as he wants to.

I loved it when Terisa kicked Geraden, that was an excellent piece of bonding. And SRD does seem to have a great knowledge of hangovers... doesn't he? heh.

I wasn't really bothered when Havelock said Myste was seen begging the Champion not to kill her... Because I pretty much knew he wouldn't... because he said "I don't kill women". So I just don't see that happening... and the fact that dAN said they get together probably had something to do with me not being bothered by this piece of information. :D ;)

I really liked this chapter... For the kicking of Geraden. heh. But Havelock made me like this chapter most of all... because he became a non freaky character.
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Post by dANdeLION »

Darth Revan wrote:and the fact that dAN said they get together....
And you actually believed me? I never thought you were so gullible, Rev! :screwy:
Dandelion don't tell no lies
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion


I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.


High priest of THOOOTP

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Post by danlo »

Right Darth, we understand that the Champion won't kill her, but the more important question it raises is,
duchess wrote:And does the King know about what the augury showed about Myste????
If he knows this, and more, then why did he give Terisa the 3rd degree? So she won't tell Elega? Are there even more reasons? :?
Last edited by danlo on Sun Jan 02, 2005 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by dANdeLION »

Joyse has made it abundantly clear that he wishes to know what side Teresa is on. I believe that this is his way of finding out how far she'll go to help Myste.
Dandelion don't tell no lies
Dandelion will make you wise
Tell me if she laughs or cries
Blow away dandelion


I'm afraid there's no denying
I'm just a dandelion
a fate I don't deserve.


High priest of THOOOTP

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Re: TMOHD Chapter 18: A Little Conversation

Post by Cord Hurn »

...a touch of cold as thin as a feather and as sharp as steel slid straight through the center of her abdomen.


I always enjoyed this brief but vivid description of what Terisa feels when a translation is happening, for it made it easy for me to imagine it, though I don't think I've ever experienced this exact sensation at any time in my life.

The cockroaches are the creepiest things out of all the dangers described in Mordant's Need, in my opinion. I find them totally disgusting! :-x

And this chapter truly made me feel sorry for Adept Havelock, who is trying so hard to hold his mind together to rely crucial information to Terisa and Geraden.
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Post by Cord Hurn »

This chapter contains a little conversation that's a little confounding... :confused:
He [Havelock] tried to smile again--this time unsuccessfully. Without transition, he said, "You're probably wondering why I brought you here. Well, I can't tell you that. If I knew the answer myself, it probably wouldn't make sense. But I want to tell you a little bit about King Joyse."

Terisa swallowed the change of subject as well as she could and waited for him to go on.

"You know, the relationship between Imagery, augury, and fate is an interesting philosophical question." His tone was peaceful now, but his eyes contradicted it. His manner brought back the idea of a lurking spider. "Before Joyse was born, I was what some people called the 'pet Imager' of the Cadwal prince who ruled Orison and the Demesne. He was a petty tyrant, but imaginative in his cruelties, and I was growing desperate for hope. So I tried to arrange an augury for the coming birth.

"Unfortunately, I was unable to shape a flat glass to show the room where he would be born. The best I could create was an Image of a hill just outside of Orison--a hill," he added by the way, "which is now in the castle. In fact, it forms the foundation for the tower where he has his rooms.

"But at time," he resumed, "the focus of my mirror refused to be adjusted any farther than the stables where our prince allowed us to keep our mangy horses.

"Of course, I could have waited until the child was born and grew up enough to go to the stables on his own. But as I say I was growing desperate. So one black night soon after he was born, I stole little Joyse from his cradle and took him down to the stables and risked leaving him there alone in a pile of straw while I raced back to my small laborium to work the augury.

"He took cold and nearly died--but I got what I wanted."

From where he stood, he couldn't see Geraden and Artagel as they crept past the edge of the pillar. Terisa glanced at them to reassure herself about Artagel's condition--and to try to warn them not to interfere. Then she returned her attention to the Adept.

"It was a remarkable augury, unusually distinct in some ways, maddeningly vague in others. On the one hand, it clearly showed Joyse making himself a king. On the other, it proved to have almost nothing to do with the process by which he actually did become King. It didn't show the battles he actually fought, the victories he actually won, the decisions he actually made. So it was no help to us at all along the way. The best it gave us was an occasional bit of confirmation, when the results of something he did--like the creation of the Congery--unexpectedly matched the Images in the augury.

"Let me give you an example," he said blandly while the pace of his gaze increased. "According to my augury, he became King as an old man. Sometime after a large, unexplained hole was torn in the side of Orison."

While Terisa stared--and Geraden and Artagel fought to muffle their surprise-Havelock permitted himself a stiff shrug. She felt sure he was trying to tell her something urgent, something she couldn't possibly understand. "At the time, the idea that I would have to wait until was old was so depressing--I almost didn't bother to go rescue him from the stables. But since then I've had a lot of time to ask myself what went wrong. Did I falsify my augury by not allowing the conditions for it to happen naturally? Does the very act of casting an augury change events? Or are there other possibilities? Has King Joyse changed his own fate by being stronger--or weaker--than he would have been if he hadn't taken cold that night and nearly died?

"We would be better off if we could answer questions like these."
It's refreshing to see Havelock in such a lucid state, though.
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