The Official Gilden-Fire thread.

A place to discuss the books in the FC and SC. *Please Note* No LC spoilers allowed in this forum. Do so in the forum below.

Moderators: kevinswatch, Orlion

User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

Yet in time a kind of understanding came to the Ho-aru and Nimishi. They saw that they fought a feud they could not win. First, the clans were too evenly matched for one side to retain for long any brief ascendance. And second, even victory offered no solution to the need, for a victorious family would quickly grow in size until it was as large as two; and then the lack of food and warmth and shelter would kill as before. So the leaders of the clans met and formed the Bond. Enmity was set aside, and hands were joined. From that time onward, Ho-aru and Nimishi warred together against their common need.
This is one of the things about GF that makes it fun for me to read. I really enjoy that we get more backstory to the Haruchai.
User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

Reave the Unjust wrote:I just re-read The Illearth War with Gilden Fire "inserted" between chapters 8 & 9 and found it to not be so much of a departure from the main story. ..At one point it was very obvious that it didn't quite fit however:
In GF the mission encounter resistance in Grimmerdhore, but of his return journey Runnik says,
"....when we entered Grimmerdhore, we were beset by wolves and Ur-viles, though we saw no sign of them when we passed eastward."
The last time I read TIW, in 2012, I inserted the reading of Gilden-Fire between the chapters "'Lord Kevin's Lament'" and "Glimmermere", and later just ignored the sentence in Runnik's Tale" about not encountering trouble in Grimmerdhore Forest, as Reeve the Unjust suggested, and thought it fit rather well that way.

Because I was re-reading both The Illearth War and Gilden-Fire when combining GF as a TIW insert, I really didn't find the point of view change jarring (no more than the change of POV from Covenant to Troy, anyway), but perhaps I would have the first time if it had been inserted that way into the story, as I was already impatient with Covenant for refusing to fight for such good people and such a wonderful place as the Land. Only the possibility that he may have been dreaming it all up and thus surrendering his self-protective discipline kept me from being disgusted with him and given up on reading further. Which would have been a shame, as I'd have missed out on a lot of good stuff, I now know.
Spoiler
NOW, it doesn't matter to me about the POV change to Korik in GF, because I know Covenant decides in TPTP and the books that follow that it's important to fight for what he values about the world of the Land, whether it's real or not. But on the first read of TIW, I was having a hard enough time sympathizing with Covenant once the viewpoint changed to Troy, which signaled that Covenanat was being irrationally stubborn (how could TC possibly dream the world form Hile Troy's point of view?).
User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

ninjaboy wrote:Does anyone think there's any discrepancy between the history of the Haruchai in this book and that in Fatal Revenant?
"Their need sent them eastward, out of the Westron Mountains, intending to conquer by might of fist the forms of sustenance their home did not provide, so that their wives and children would live."--from GF
Warning: potential Last Chronicles spoiler!
Spoiler
There's a discrepancy between what is said here and what is stated in Fatal Revenant, to be sure. I resolve this discrepancy by imagining the Harachai first went westward from their mountain territory to the fertile plains of the Insequent, got humiliated by the Vizard, then later turned east towards the Land and met Kevin. That's what works for me, anyway. I realize that GF is considered non-canonical, but have this desire to resolve contradiction, all the same.
User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

However, the food seemed to meet his [Hyrim's] needs. Soon he recovered enough cheerfulness to groan, "Sister Shetra, you are not a good cook."
When she made no reply, he stretched himself on his back by the fire, sighing plaintively, "Ah, agony!" For a time, he stared at the way the flames danced without consuming along the special wood of the lillianrill. Then he turned his face to the sky and said gruffly, "Friends, I had bethought me of fit revenge against those who gave to me this unendurable ride. Since noon, I have been full of dire promises--in place of food, I think. But now I am contrite. The fault is mine alone. I have been a fat thistle-brained fool from the moment the thought of the Loresraat and Lordship entered my head. Ah, what business had I to dream of Lords and Giants, of lore and bold undertakings? Better had I been punished severely and sent to tend sheep for the rest of my days, rather than permitted to follow mad fancies. But Hoole Gren-mate my father was a kind man, slow to chastise. Alas, his memory is poorly honored in my thick self. Were he to see me now, thus reduced to raw quivering flesh and strengthless bones by one single day astride the honor of a Ranyhyn, he would have shed great fat tears as a reproach to my overfed resourcelessness."
This is yet another reason why I'm glad Gilden-Fire got published. I've always liked Lord Hyrim. And here we get to see more of his endearing self-effacing personality. His lack of physical fitness may make him seem more foolish for coming along on such a dangerous quest, but it also makes him look that much more courageous. Besides Mhoram Variol-son, Hyrim son of Hoole is my favorite character from The Illearth War.
Last edited by Cord Hurn on Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

Forests have always held an entrancing fascination for me, with their ancient dignity and loveliness. And, of course, forests in the Land have that added quality of being sentient and being in opposition to Ravers and other evil beings. We get to visit Morinmoss Forest & Garroting Deep a time or two, and even visit Giant Woods in a brief flashback scene in WGW.

A pet peeve of mine with maps of fantasy worlds is when one of the details that's drawn on a map never gets visited in the attached story for which the map was made.

And that's one more thing about Gilden-Fire : it's the only part in all of Donaldson's writings about the Land where we get to visit Grimmerdhore Forest.

(Okay, I think I should give this thread a rest, for a while) :chill:
User avatar
Fist and Faith
Magister Vitae
Posts: 23439
Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 30 times

Post by Fist and Faith »

You're doing great, Cord Hurn! Nice to see the enthusiasm for one of the best parts of the Chrons.
All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest
-Paul Simon
User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

Fist and Faith wrote:You're doing great, Cord Hurn! Nice to see the enthusiasm for one of the best parts of the Chrons.
I appreciate that, Fist and Faith! I've enjoyed your posts on the watch, and have always enjoyed reading Gilden-Fire!

It's fun to talk about it, and to remember.

****************************************
Corn Hurn wrote:And that's one more thing about Gilden-Fire : it's the only part in all of Donaldson's writings about the Land where we get to visit Grimmerdhore Forest.
I enjoyed that visit; I could easily imagine being in that sleepy magic forest.
The air around them was thick and deep, almost audibly underlined with slumber; and it shifted faintly through the dim, mottled shadows like an uneasy rest, disturbed by dreams of damage and blood repayment. It smelled so heavily of moss and damp moldering soil and rot and growth that it was hard to breathe; it seemed to resist the lungs of the riders. And the crowded branches blocked out most of the sunlight; between occasional bright swaths of filtered lamination the trees seemed to brood in gloom, contemplating death.

But the quiet of Grimmerdhore was not as impenetrable as it had first appeared. From time to time, strange hoarse birds screeched forlornly. Black squirrels raced overhead. And frequently the Bloodguard heard frightened animals scuttling sway from the company through the underbrush.

Still, the way became easier. The woods spread out within the perimeter of the brambles. The path broadened as if the trees were guarding it less closely; and animal trails wove back and forth around it. As a result, the company was able to resume its formation, with the Lords and Korik riding on the path and the other Bloodguard moving through the trees around them. Here the Ranyhyn went more quickly, almost at a trot; and the company moved straight in toward the heart of Grimmerdhore.
User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

He had no answer for Lord Shetra's dour dismay--though he had paid for centuries the cost of the yearning between an man and a woman--and so he stood aloof from it. He had no hand in the unvoiced fear which caused Lord Hyrim to ask Thomas Covenant's company in defiance of the High Lord's wishes; therefore he made no effort to sway or deny the Unbeliever. And he fended away all questions which ranged beyond the ambit of his certainty. Fist and faith. Succeed or die. Aided by the native flatness of his features, he bore himself as if he possessed no emotions which might be touched.

Yet he grieved for Shetra and respected Hyrim. He judged the Unbeliever coldly. And the arrival of the Ranyhyn, seventeen of the great horses of Ra with their starred foreheads and their strange responsive fidelity, thundering forward in the first hint of day in answer to his call--that pride and beauty was a hymn in his heart. He was Haruchai and Bloodguard. His people had shown in their Vow how extremely they could be touched.

After a while, Korik asked Cerrin:
--Will her [Lord Shetra's] concern for Lord Verement weaken her?
--No, Cerrin replied flatly. She will fight for both.

Korik understood this assertion and accepted it. But he did not like it. It carried echoes of other losses and griefs--deprivations and hollow places which the Haruchai had not taken into account during their sole night of extravagance. Dourly, he posted his comrades in a wide circle around the camp. Then he stood with his arms folded on his chest, gazed warily out over the grasslands and the star-path of the moon, recited his Vow through the long watch. He could not forget any detail of the last night he had spent with his wife, whose bones were already ancient in the frozen fastness of her grave. The Vow sustained him, but it was not warm.
I wanted to say how I found passages like these in Gilden-Fire tremendously effective in reminding us that the apparent stoicism of the Haruchai is a result of their iron discipline, not in a dearth of inner passion. Beneath their rigid exteriors, their passion is almost unfathomably deep. Yet another reason I am grateful that Gilden-Fire got published, to remind us of this.
User avatar
balon!
Lord
Posts: 6042
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 3:37 am
Location: Loresraat

Post by balon! »

Just got my copy! Ive read it before, years ago, from the library. But I recently started a TC read through and it's EXCELLENT.
Avatar wrote:But then, the answers provided by your imagination are not only sometimes best, but have the added advantage of being unable to be wrong.
User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

balon! wrote:Just got my copy! Ive read it before, years ago, from the library. But I recently started a TC read through and it's EXCELLENT.
Yes!!! :cool: I've found reading it in between TIW Chapters 8 and 9 definitely enhances my enjoyment of the First Chronicles. :read: :D Korik, Shetra, and Hyrim are truly great characters.
User avatar
balon!
Lord
Posts: 6042
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 3:37 am
Location: Loresraat

Post by balon! »

OMG Korik is amazing! And it really delves deeper into the haruchai which I appreciate more now that the 'final' chrons are out. Re-reading the series as an adult has reaaaaaly improved some moments as well, things stand out I didnt notice before. Of course it helps having read them like a dozen times, I can reference moments in the future that maybe SRD wasn't thinking of at the time...

It didnt come in the mail until after I'd read Tull Story, so...that was sad. :cry: I forgot how short Lord Hyrim's parts are, but he really stuck with me as a kid.
Avatar wrote:But then, the answers provided by your imagination are not only sometimes best, but have the added advantage of being unable to be wrong.
User avatar
darthbuzz
<i>Elohim</i>
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:58 pm
Location: London, ENGLAND
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by darthbuzz »

I have Gilden-fire but didn't know where to read it. Thank you Cord Hurn for clearing that up for us. I will read it and try to think back to what happened then.
Is it essential? I am nearing the end of WL but will read it anyway.

Thanks again you lovely lot. Wink


_______
"Only when the last tree has died and the last river poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realise we cannot eat money" -Cree Indian Prophecy
User avatar
darthbuzz
<i>Elohim</i>
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:58 pm
Location: London, ENGLAND
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by darthbuzz »

I don't know if these have been posted before but here is the art by Peter Goodfellow that appears in the UK fontana edition of Gilden-fire.
I particularly like the genital less Harachuai.

Image

Image

Hope you like them.

_______________
"When many matters press you, consider friendship first."
Last edited by darthbuzz on Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
darthbuzz
<i>Elohim</i>
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2020 6:58 pm
Location: London, ENGLAND
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by darthbuzz »

Here are all the pictures I can find from the far superior US version of Gilden-fire. I would love a copy of this book. Just how I had the inhabitants of The Land and Coercri in my head when I had not seen any pictures except for my covers of the UK fontana novels. Revelstone looks very nice as well. Enjoy.

Image

Image

Image


_______________
"And he who wields white, wild magic gold is a paradox.
For he is everything and nothing
Hero and fool.
Potent, helpless.
And with one word of truth or treachery.
He will save or damn the earth.
Because he is mad and sane.
Cold and passionate.
Lost and found."
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25188
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

I have the Australian edition

Image

Image
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
wayfriend
.
Posts: 20957
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2004 12:34 am
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by wayfriend »

Skyweir wrote:I have the Australian edition
Ah, so that's why all the pictures look upside-down to me.
.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25188
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

:LOLS:
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Cord Hurn
Servant of the Band
Posts: 7630
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Tucson, Arizona, USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Post by Cord Hurn »

You know, Skyweir, the first time I saw freshly-made posts of yours from Australia, I was reluctant to read them because I had qualms about having to stand on my head. But, then, I realized that all I had to do was pick up my laptop computer and hold it upside down, and the meanings of your posts became perfectly clear! :!: Thank goodness there was a way to solve that communication barrier, because I've been able to be enjoying your posts ever since! :biggrin:
User avatar
Hunchback Jack
<i>Elohim</i>
Posts: 109
Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2016 1:01 am

Post by Hunchback Jack »

I would need to check, but I believe I also have that edition (given I was living in Australia when Gilden-Fire came out).

Edited to add: Yep. My copy is not as nice as Skyweir's though.

HBJ
Post Reply

Return to “The First and Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant”