President Trump recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

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Hashi Lebwohl
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Avatar wrote:5 million odd people probably disagree with you.

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As per that and previous links, the existence of the territory of Palestine is not really something in doubt.

Indeed, the very intent of the Israeli's to annex it surely is a concession that there is something to annex?

(Leaving aside the fact that the Romans themselves called the region Palestine, long before Israel as a nation-state (artificially created no less) was ever thought of.)

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Semantics, like how China views Taiwan as a "rogue province" even though it actually is a separate and distinct nation in its own right.
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This is like watching Red Dawn with people who cheer for the Russians.
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Post by Obi-Wan Nihilo »

wayfriend wrote:This is like watching Red Dawn with people who cheer for the Russians.
Your Antisemitism is repugnant. Remind me again when being Russian was a religion, and when someone made a concerted effort to rid the Earth of said religion.

Take your hatred elsewhere, there's no place for it here.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

He was talking about Democrats--they enjoy rewatching Red Dawn because foreign nations invade the United States and the protagonists wind up losing.
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Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
wayfriend wrote:This is like watching Red Dawn with people who cheer for the Russians.
Your Antisemitism is repugnant.
Uh, it's perfectly possible to be opposed to Israeli policy and actions without being anti-Semitic.

Much as some people / groups would have one believe otherwise.

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Avatar wrote:
Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:
wayfriend wrote:This is like watching Red Dawn with people who cheer for the Russians.
Your Antisemitism is repugnant.
Uh, it's perfectly possible to be opposed to Israeli policy and actions without being anti-Semitic.

Much as some people / groups would have one believe otherwise.
Yes, a lot of Antisemites want desperately to believe that.
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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:Yes, a lot of Antisemites want desperately to believe that.
Just like someone may be anti-Trump but pro-America, people may be anti-Netanyahu but pro-Israel and not be anti-Semitic.

I, myself, am in that group. No, it probably is not a good idea to keep annexing land because at some point they are going to cause a real problem with it...but on the other hand it is their land and they won it all, fairly and squarely, back in 1967. I suspect that some Arab leaders in the decades since have thought to themselves "you know, we probably should not have attacked them".
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Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:Yes, a lot of Antisemites want desperately to believe that.
Just like someone may be anti-Trump but pro-America, people may be anti-Netanyahu but pro-Israel and not be anti-Semitic.

I, myself, am in that group. No, it probably is not a good idea to keep annexing land because at some point they are going to cause a real problem with it...but on the other hand it is their land and they won it all, fairly and squarely, back in 1967. I suspect that some Arab leaders in the decades since have thought to themselves "you know, we probably should not have attacked them".
That is exactly the point Hashi. They were attacked, and they won the land in battle. It's theirs, period.

Israel has the right to exist. When they've been attacked, they've dominated their attackers. Quite frankly, given the stated goals of their neighbors, I'm perfectly okay with them annexing the entire ME.
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Post by Wosbald »

+JMJ+
Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Just like someone may be anti-Trump but pro-America, people may be anti-Netanyahu but pro-Israel and not be anti-Semitic.

I, myself, am in that group. No, it probably is not a good idea to keep annexing land because at some point they are going to cause a real problem with it...but on the other hand it is their land and they won it all, fairly and squarely, back in 1967.
...
Seems to me that the elephant-in-the-room is whether not thinking that "it is their land, and they won it all, fairly and squarely, back in 1967" makes one Anti-Semitic.


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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Wosbald wrote:Seems to me that the elephant-in-the-room is whether not thinking that "it is their land, and they won it all, fairly and squarely, back in 1967" makes one Anti-Semitic.
Being an anti-Semite is like any other form of racism--no one is racist by *not* doing, thinking, or saying something. Racism is something a person has to do by a concious act of will--they have to choose it in order to be it.
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Obi-Wan Nihilo wrote:That is exactly the point Hashi. They were attacked, and they won the land in battle. It's theirs, period.

Israel has the right to exist. When they've been attacked, they've dominated their attackers. Quite frankly, given the stated goals of their neighbors, I'm perfectly okay with them annexing the entire ME.
Sheesh, what is this, the Middle Ages? :D

Israel was created by fiat from other peoples land because no other country wanted the Jews after WWII?

Why is Israels right to exist any more compelling than Palestines?

They both have a right to exist, which is why a 2-state solution is necessary.

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Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Avatar wrote: Sheesh, what is this, the Middle Ages? :D

Israel was created by fiat from other peoples land because no other country wanted the Jews after WWII?
Actually, everyone felt so sorry for what happened to them that they gave them some of their historical land. Yes, that decision was by fiat.

A lot of countries in the world still have a Medeival way of thinking.
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Yeah, and not just countries and politicians. :D

The neuro / bio-chemistry of savannah scavengers, the social and political institutions of the middle ages, and the technology of (virtual) gods by comparison to any other time in human history.

Welcome to humanity. :D

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