The Latest Potentially-Explosive Racially-Charged Murder

[sgt.null]

Seems that neither Ur or WF know what premeditated means. Having a gun does not automatically means premeditated.

[Skyweir]

Dude they are talking to his intent .. he took a weapon to a protest to protect businesses from human interaction.

What was reasonably foreseeable, right?

It informs what he was prepared to do .. and ultimately what he did in fact do ..

[Hashi Lebwohl]

Avoiding conflict in this case would be NOT going to places you know there will be riots. The fact of the matter is that Rittinghouse intentionally went to a riot

This part is true. Equally true is that of the 175 (or just about that number) people arrested in Kenosha at riots over 100 of them were not from Kenosha--people are going there from both sides to stir up, or participate in, violence.

and waited for someone to attack him so he could discharge his weapon at the assailant.

This is conjecture--you are not a telepath, so unless you have a written confession from him saying this then you are merely guessing at his motive. Very few people choose to set up a situation where someone attacks them on purpose, especially when the situation is known for being potentially violent.

I find it fascinating that people are more upset about this one kid than they are the actual violent riots which are taking place.

[Skyweir]

People get upset about a lot of things.

Some things may be overreactions, some things may be quite reasonable concerns.

I think what people are concerned about is the civilian militia ideology .. that average joes take to the streets armed and prepared to kill.

Armed and prepared to kill, to murder.

Armed and prepared to cause actual bodily harm to fellow citizens.

It is the combination of the armed and preparedness that denotes the intent of the criminality - the intent of the murderer.

[SoulBiter]

Armed and prepared to kill, to murder.

Armed and prepared to defend themselves. No murder happened here. Clear cut self defense.

Armed and prepared to cause actual bodily harm to fellow citizens.

It is the combination of the armed and preparedness that denotes the intent of the criminality - the intent of the murderer.

So much wrong with what you said that is all based on conjecture and a dislike of citizens being able to defend themselves no matter where they are. Armed and prepared denotes the intent to defend oneself. The intent to not become a victim.

You are falling into the same trap that I mentioned before. Its the same as saying that a stripper who worked people up all night, gets raped on the way home. Her intent must have been to be raped. She was asking for it.

I have quoted the law. As soon as Kyle disengaged and ran away, regardless of anything incendiary before that, his right to self defense is reasserted.

[sgt.null]

Sky - why aren't you upset with the rioter who had the glock?

[wayfriend]

No one said "pre-meditated".

And no one said the issue, w.r.t self-defense, was his being armed. (Being armed is a different issue.) The issue, with respect to self-defense, was that he went searching for a conflict to inject himself into. Sorry all you straw men.

However, the fact that he was armed, not only armed but wandering the streets armed, not only wandering the streets armed but wandering the streets armed during civil unrest ... he was greeted by the police positively. They saw him, thanked him, and offered him a bottle of water!

During civil unrest, a black person doing ANYTHING that looks like it could lead to violence ends up with a knee on his back. But the cops threw the white guy a water and said thank you.

This helps us understand what happened in Wisconsin as not a bug in the code of American policing, but a feature. There’s a reason anti-police violence protesters have been met with crackdowns, while armed anti-lockdown protesters could menace the Michigan Capitol without incident.

Police — who are heavily white, heavily male, and overwhelmingly conservative politically — see guns as a scourge when they’re in the wrong hands. But the “wrong hands” tend to be Black and brown ones. When respectable-seeming white people arm themselves, police welcome their intervention — even, or perhaps especially, in a tense situation where the potential for escalation to violence is really high.

This is not a new phenomenon; there’s a long history of deeply racialized gun politics in America. In 1967, a group of Black Panthers carried guns in a demonstration outside the California statehouse; shortly thereafter, then-Gov. Ronald Reagan signed a bill banning open carry of loaded firearms. [link]

We need to recognize racism. Before conservatives use it to complete the destruction of democracy.

[SoulBiter]

The law is clear. The video's show what happened. This will all end up in the courts. IMHO, based on current information, he will be found innocent of murder. He will be found guilty of some other crimes related to illegal possession and use of a firearm.

As I pointed out multiple times, its not illegal for him to go to a place where there are protests and violence. It is also not illegal to go armed to protect yourself and others.

We will see how this plays out in the courts. And after the verdict we can then revisit this topic and see how the jury see's this. The good thing about jury's are that they are instructed on what the crime being prosecuted is, and what the law says about that. I have been on a number of jury's and the courts do their best to make sure the jury leaves their personal opinions outside of the deliberation room. Inside that room, the topic will be What is the crime, what does the law say. It will be quite dynamic. Usually the person elected to be the foreman will ensure that the discussion stays within the boundaries of what they were instructed prior to entering the room. They may even reach out to get further instructions from the judge or clarification. Then they decide if the law was broken. If the jury decides that a law was broken, the judge will render a verdict. (usually in a separate sentencing phase).

[wayfriend]

... But it is illegal to shoot someone (or three) when it's not in self-defense. As is the case here. For reasons already cited. So: more straw man arguments.

... But a black person could not "go to a place where there are protests and violence" while armed. Not without incurring a use of force that may all too easily become deadly.

Will you not admit to the racism inherent in policing?

No? That's why we're fucked. Because how much longer can people put up with jackboots on their necks?

- - - - - - - -

We all know it's not about what's right. We all know it's not about what's fair.

What's really keeping this bad situation bad is power.

Ever since emancipation, every single thing that's happened to prevent true equality for everyone has happened because enough white people don't want black people to have the same power as a white person. That's explains every single thing.

It explains why Jim Crow happened. To keep the power where it was supposed to be.

It explains why protests are futile - people WANT black people to feel powerless, and the more they protest without any effect, the more powerless they will feel.

It explains why some white people call the cops on black people for being black. To show them who has the power.

It explains why voter suppression is concentrated against the black vote.

It explains why Trump is stirring up the violence as a way to get elected. He wants white people scared of black people so that white people resist any changes towards equality. (As do so many people here at the Tank. Stay scared!!!)

It even explains why people in this forum defend a reckless gun nut. Because a reckless white gun nut must have more power than any black person who is rightfully angry at the status quo.

It explains why cops are systemically racist. On the day that slaves were freed, the very next day they started getting arrested for petty, made-up infractions in order to keep them in line.

It explains why conservatives will never admit that racism is a problem, no matter how deep the racist shit piles up around their armpits.

It IS up to your armpits now. And you aren't admitting it yet.

[sgt.null]

WF - just stop. Black people are not being hunted. If you continue to insist then post the numbers.

Jim Crow happened because you racist democrats were angry about losing your slaves when you lost the war.

Blacks are not powerless in America. Even if a bunch of millionaire blacks tell you they are.

Prove voter supression. The only people who believe bkacks can't understand how to get and id or how to vote are condescending liberals like you. All my black friends have jobs snd ids.

Explain how Tru.p is responsible for a bunch of leftists rioting?

And if you are so upset the kid had a rifle why not one word about the guy with the glock who ass chasing him?

Slaves started being arrested by you democrats. They started getting killed y the democrats' goons the KKK. All of the horror visited on them by your party.

We conservatives see black people as people. We don't care about race. You Democrats use it as a club to keep them on the plantation.

[sgt.null]

WF - and in addition, when will blacks succeed enough for Democrats to see them as functioning adults? A president , 2 secretaries of state [both Republicans], 2 attorney generals. Here is a list 18 other blacks who were Cabinet members.

Top entertainers, top athletes, top influencers. Many millionaires.

How is they all can succeed?

[Savor Dam]

Sarge, if "Here is a list..." was supposed to contain a link, you may want to go back and edit that in.

~ edit: For those who are missing the link from Sarge's immediately-prior post, he provided it downthread, but you can click on it here if you like.

[SoulBiter]

I will not respond to any of the race baiting posts. But I will reiterate that law is very clear on what constitutes self defense. Feel free to look it up on your own or consult an actual attorney.

We get to all find out in the future when this goes to court. Until then we have little to go on. But going back on forth with the same base statements seems a bit silly.

On another topic. It appears that the local law enforcement near Portland will Not send any police there. This issue being the revolving door of Justice there. They arrest, the DA wont press charges, they are released, they are arrested again, the DA refuses to press charges, they are released...rinse repeat.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

But I will reiterate that law is very clear on what constitutes self defense.

Based on my understanding of the law, and what was taught in my CCW course, he did everything right. Exercising open carry is not "looking for trouble", or any other sort of loaded language.

I'd imagine his attorney will point out the contradiction in the law regarding 17-year-olds carrying rifles. If open carry is for 18 and over, how can 16 or 17-year olds hunt with rifles? If 16 and 17-year-olds can hunt with rifles, why can't they open carry? Is it only legal in the woods?

On another topic. It appears that the local law enforcement near Portland will Not send any police there. This issue being the revolving door of Justice there. They arrest, the DA wont press charges, they are released, they are arrested again, the DA refuses to press charges, they are released...rinse repeat.

Sadly, nothing will change in November. People are so invested in the false-choice duopoly of our two-party system that they won't cross the aisle to voice their disagreement with a party that's allowing their city to burn, their businesses to close, and their property values to plummet.

At what price woke?

[sgt.null]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... ecretaries

There you go

[Gaius Octavius]

Donald Trump retweets false-flag White Nationalist tweet in order to incite racial tensions

[Gaius Octavius]

... But it is illegal to shoot someone (or three) when it's not in self-defense. As is the case here. For reasons already cited. So: more straw man arguments.

... But a black person could not "go to a place where there are protests and violence" while armed. Not without incurring a use of force that may all too easily become deadly.

Will you not admit to the racism inherent in policing?

No? That's why we're fucked. Because how much longer can people put up with jackboots on their necks?

- - - - - - - -

We all know it's not about what's right. We all know it's not about what's fair.

What's really keeping this bad situation bad is power.

Ever since emancipation, every single thing that's happened to prevent true equality for everyone has happened because enough white people don't want black people to have the same power as a white person. That's explains every single thing.

It explains why Jim Crow happened. To keep the power where it was supposed to be.

It explains why protests are futile - people WANT black people to feel powerless, and the more they protest without any effect, the more powerless they will feel.

It explains why some white people call the cops on black people for being black. To show them who has the power.

It explains why voter suppression is concentrated against the black vote.

It explains why Trump is stirring up the violence as a way to get elected. He wants white people scared of black people so that white people resist any changes towards equality. (As do so many people here at the Tank. Stay scared!!!)

It even explains why people in this forum defend a reckless gun nut. Because a reckless white gun nut must have more power than any black person who is rightfully angry at the status quo.

It explains why cops are systemically racist. On the day that slaves were freed, the very next day they started getting arrested for petty, made-up infractions in order to keep them in line.

It explains why conservatives will never admit that racism is a problem, no matter how deep the racist shit piles up around their armpits.

It IS up to your armpits now. And you aren't admitting it yet.

Something I have observed within the 2A gun enthusiast community is that there are negative attitudes towards black gun ownership. I've seen blacks go to buy a gun within Cabela's and basically be turned away from the white salesman, not even doing a background check for the firearms purchase or anything. Just literally zero interest in selling a gun to a black man period.

Many black gun owners report that feeling.

The rule of law doesn't always apply equally, and if certain people had their way, the 2nd amendment would be "whites only." After all, a lot of white hunters want to shoot a good ol' "young buck."


I was once driving down the road in a car with my headlights off (I forgot that they weren't automatic in the car I was driving since this was my parents' car and not my own). I got pulled over by a local police officer. Rather than give me a ticket or even a warning, he just helped me turn the headlights on (I was unfamiliar with the location of the switch) and sent me on my way. 100% cordial.

I was a white man wearing a suit and tie. If I was a black guy wearing a hoodie, I doubt he would have been so nice to me.

This is what people are angry about. Selective enforcement of the law.

[sgt.null]

Ur - I have no idea where you live but here in Texas there is no fear of blacks owning guns. One of my friends who used to work with me talk about guns all the time. We swap gun videos and stories. We haven't had a chance to go shooting because of real life.

The type of racism you mention might have been true of the Democrats and their thugs the KKK back in the 60's and before. But they are only a subset of people today.

But feel free to post the real life stats supporting your worldview. Because I know pts of cops and they aren't hunting blscks down. And ive posted thr fbi stats already.

[Skyweir]

SB you are investing a great deal of faith into a
obviously heavily edited video footage and the narrative that accompanied its agenda driven pov.

Id say we will just have to wait for those arguments to be argued in trial.

Id also say that young Kyle, like many others who form civilian militias are a highly concerning g vigilante movement that should not be encouraged for a range of reasons, not least among them being public and legal liability.

[sgt.null]

Sky - he was attacked. And you still not condemned the rioter with the pistol. Why is that? The guy who got his bicep blown off. The guy who by some reports is a convicted felon, but the media isn't interested in proving or disproving that.

And have you condemned the man who shot dead the Trump supporter more recently?