My recent reread of Mordant's Need (spoilers)

"Reflect" on Stephen Donaldson's other epic fantasy

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My recent reread of Mordant's Need (spoilers)

Post by samrw3 »

I have decided to make this a separate thread hoping to bring out new discussions.

First, I wasn't to say some reading this will consider some of my review harsh. I will defend my harshness by stating very clearly SRD is my favorite author ever. I would not even spend my time writing this up for any author out there. To me harshness comes out because I appreciate the work and writing so much it brings out emotions that vast majority of authors cannot even touch.

So without further ado some comments and questions.

I really enjoyed my recent read of MN. It has been at least twenty years since my last read. I believe that this is my third read of MN. This is time I enjoyed and devoured the writing and appreciated it more then my past reads.

Things I enjoyed:
The scope of the Cares and the leaders of each of those Cares. I appreciated the different personalities.

I especially appreciated getting to know the Tor. We get to know him pretty well since he is pretty involved in the story and the fate of the kingdom.

I loved the intrigue and the manipulations of Eremis and Gilbur. It was interesting to see their plans develop.

On the same token it was interesting to see King Joyse's gambits and strategies develop. I think SRD did a masterful job of interweaving the game of hopboard into how the plot unraveled and seeing the different sides take their "moves".

Talking about hopboard...I really loved the back and forth questioning between Terisa and the King and how they were trying to assess each other as if playing hopboard.

I appreciated the emotions brought about by reading Castellan Lebbick, Saddith, Artagel, Nyle Terisa and Geraden. I got really involved in each character arc and each character develop.

Some disappointments:
I would have liked to see Terisa develop a little more in the beginning of the story. She is thrown into alien world and all these pieces moving around her - I am not sure it was clear to me why she chose action instead of just sitting in her room. I know she appreciated Geraden and was drawn to his loyalty. But I would have preferred a little more character development and internal dialogue displaying a progression from meek woman to woman taking action. I know there was some of that going on...just saying I would have preferred more.

I think the placing of Terisa practicing translations is in odd placement in books. The books show Terisa practicing translations at least three quarters into the book series. I think it would have been more interesting for Geraden or possibly a Master having her practice in the first book. In fact I think that could have been used to shown some character development earlier in the series.

I would have liked Geraden to develop a little more of his skills before his battle with Gilbur. I think that battle scene would have been a little more dramatic if Geraden had felt more skilled in his talents.

Probably my biggest disappointment was we do not get to know how (in detail) Adept Havelock disposes of Vagel. Vagel is supposed to be one of the best Imagers ever and we get a throw away sentence describing how Vagel meets his end? Huh? I do not get that decision at all. In fact we really never get to know Vagel hardly at all - then in one sentence he is gone? Shrug....could have much much better conclusion to those character arcs in my opinion.

Yes I know I am being overly harsh and there are VERY compelling reasons why the book progressed as it did. So that is why I stated the whole Adept Havelock/Vagel conclusion was the most disappointing.

Question:
ok this a sincere question and for recently reading the book I should have found the answer myself. But I really don't understand something even after thinking about it for awhile:
Why does Eremis both want to kill Terisa through Gart and at the same time gain her confidence. I mean I guess I kind of get it. If you cannot kill someone that may turn against you - see if you can con them to your side. But Eremis is trying to kill her early in series before he even knows if she has any talents at all? Why? Because she is hopboard piece unknown and he can't afford his board tilted? Please someone enlighten me with your thoughts and opinions?
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Post by IrrationalSanity »

I have an answer for you, but I need some time to fully develop it in prose. Short, short version - Terisa is not simply an unknown, but is an augured presence. And, she is associated with Gereden's augured translation, therefore it is highly likely that she will be aligned with him. (You may also want to seek out my fanfic of Havelock in the archives here...)
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Post by samrw3 »

Thanks IrratrionalSanity! I look forward to more researched answer. Although your short answer also makes tons of sense.

I will look for your Adept Havelock information :)
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Post by IrrationalSanity »

samrw3 wrote:Thanks IrratrionalSanity! I look forward to more researched answer. Although your short answer also makes tons of sense.

I will look for your Adept Havelock information :)
If you find it, let me know - I've tried. I may have to dig through some old archive files at home to find it and re-post. :(
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My recent reread of Mordant's Need (spoilers)

Post by Cord Hurn »

I appreciate all your thoughts, samrw3! It is noted that you are a truly appreciative fan of Stephen Donaldson, as I consider myself to be, so it is understood that you are not trying to be disagreeably harsh in your assessment, only honest, and I appreciate your frankness. Your opening post is thought-provoking!
samrw3 wrote:Probably my biggest disappointment was we do not get to know how (in detail) Adept Havelock disposes of Vagel. Vagel is supposed to be one of the best Imagers ever and we get a throw away sentence describing how Vagel meets his end? Huh? I do not get that decision at all. In fact we really never get to know Vagel hardly at all - then in one sentence he is gone? Shrug....could have much much better conclusion to those character arcs in my opinion.

Yes I know I am being overly harsh and there are VERY compelling reasons why the book progressed as it did. So that is why I stated the whole Adept Havelock/Vagel conclusion was the most disappointing.
I cannot conclusively prove it with anything in the MN text, alas, but I have long entertained the notion that the featherduster that Havelock carries with him isn't as ordinary as it seems. The Adept has likely visited many different worlds through mirrors, and apparently has enough negotiating skills while in his lucent phase to get a brown-smoke creature to help him and Joyse out when needed. So maybe he talked to denizens of other worlds and learned about a weapon made out of wood that can be commanded to change size and shape, bargained for it, and that featherduster that he carried as "aa sword or scepter no one could oppose" got turned into a branch for disemboweling Vagel.

In that interpretation, Havelock's decision to go after Vagel was based on knowledge more than madness. And perhaps to Havelock's mind the biggest danger was always that Vagel would once again get away to cause future trouble, and Havelock may have been resolved to dispatch Vagel at the first given opportunity, despite whatever else may be going on.
samrw3 wrote:Question:
ok this a sincere question and for recently reading the book I should have found the answer myself. But I really don't understand something even after thinking about it for awhile:
Why does Eremis both want to kill Terisa through Gart and at the same time gain her confidence. I mean I guess I kind of get it. If you cannot kill someone that may turn against you - see if you can con them to your side. But Eremis is trying to kill her early in series before he even knows if she has any talents at all? Why? Because she is hopboard piece unknown and he can't afford his board tilted? Please someone enlighten me with your thoughts and opinions?
I think it is High King Festten that wanted Terisa killed from the outset, and that Eremis has at times talked Festten into holding back on killing her with Gart. Casting an augury is probably an ability that Vagel has, and it is not inconceivable to me that Vagel cast an Augury for Festten that showed Terisa exercising her talents at Imagery, perhaps by her changing a mirror. Also, maybe Eremis at times changed his mind as to whether Terisa would be more useful to his plans alive or dead.

I've felt that Eremis was surprised the second time Gart charged into Terisa's peacock rooms (late in The Mirror Of Her Dreams), as if Festten got impatient enough for her death that he decided to send Gart after her once again without consulting with Eremis. That is the time that Eremis hampers Gart by throwing pillows at him while Geraden draws Terisa away. Before Gart appears, Eremis seems to be focused on getting Terisa to turn against Geraden, and it doesn't make sense that he'd bother with doing that if all he wanted was for Gart to burst in the room and kill her.
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My recent reread of Mordant's Need (spoilers)

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I'm thinking of doing another read of Mordant's Need sometime next year. I think I want to read SRD's The Killing God first, though.
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My recent reread of Mordant's Need (spoilers)

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On the current reread, I'm slowly working my way to the climactic parts of the story. I like when Terisa realizes her dream scenario, the augry of the three riders, is about to happen , and she gets the camp to be on defense quickly in case of attack.
As she and the Masters finished translating the last of the tents and bedrolls, the snowfall abruptly lessened. She felt cold to the bone; her face was wet and numb; her fingertips left trails of moisture down the frame of Master Harpool's glass. Nevertheless the easing of the snow caught at her attention like a call of horns--

--the call for which her heart had always been waiting.

She jerked her back straight, lifted her head, spun around before anyone else noticed the change.

Yes. Blowing down from the head of the valley, the wind parted the snow like curtains, let the gray light of early evening through the clouds. As if without transition, Esmerel and the valley became a winter landscape before twilight, a scene which needed only sunshine to reveal its surprising beauty.

Perhaps the horns--and those who sounded them--were on the far side: the far side of the manor, where the defile brought the brook gamboling over its ice into the valley.

Now Geraden joined her, looked around. Several of the Masters breathed thanks that the snow was stopping. Guards expressed the same sentiment less delicately. None of them could hear the premonition in the air whetted with cold, the implication as penetrating as splinters.

"Get the Tor," she said as if the horns had lifted her out of herself, despite the fact that she couldn't her them, could hardly remember them; maybe she had never heard them. "Get Prince Kragen, Tell them to hurry."

"Terisa?" Geraden asked. "Terisa?"

She ignored him. She didn't need reason: intuition was enough. She was fixed on Esmerel and couldn't look away.

Master Barsonage sent Imagers into motion. Someone shouted for the Castellan. Infected by an urgency they couldn't explain, guards began to obey, began to run. She had that much credibility with them, anyway.

Then past the snow-clogged side of the manor came charging men on horseback. As the horses fought for speed, their nostrils gusted steam, and their legs churned the snow until the dry, light flakes seemed to boil. The sides of the valley and the snow muffled every sound, but each movement was distinct, as edged as a shard of glass.

Three riders with longswords held up in their fists and keen hate in the strides of their fierce mounts. The riders she had seen in the Congery's augury. The riders of her dream.

"Bowmen!" Norge snapped from somewhere nearby. "Be ready! We'll pick then off as soon as they get in range."

"No!" coughed the Tor. He had come out of his tent; he stood with his legs splayed into the snow, supported by Ribuld. "That is a traitor's deed. Let them approach. We kill no one unless we must."

"Well said, my lord Tor!" Prince Kragen arrived at a run, with his sword on both hands. Using the blade as a pointer, he commanded, "Look more closely!"

The light wasn't good: at first, she couldn't see what the Prince was pointing at. But after a moment she realized that each of the riders had a white cloth tied to the tip of his sword.

Flags of truce.

A truce, Eremis? With you?

One of the riders was certainly Master Eremis: that was unmistakable. He drove his mount plunging forward with an air of jaunty peril, as if he were in the grip of an exquisite and unutterable joy.

Beside him came Master Gilbur, hunchbacked and murderous.

The third an she didn't know by sight. Nevertheless she was sure of him. The arch-Imager Vagel. A relatively small man, at least compared to Eremis and Gilbur; dwarfed by his charger. Lank gray hair fluttered from his skull. He rode with his toothless mouth open like the entrance to a pit.

The riders of her dream.

"We kill no one unless we must." The Tor, noble and principled as ever. He faces a pivotal moment of decision, here, and must soon answer to whatever deceptive proposal Eremis has come to offer.

After the way they have seen the Perdon and his men treated in defeat, none of them will trust whatever these three renegade Imagers are proposing.

I like that Terisa has a potent premonition that enables everybody to avoid being taken off guard by the approaching danger of Eremis, GIlbur and Vagel.

Looking forward to finishing this reread of Mordant's Need by sometime later this month!
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