Lord Foul's Bane -- Which Most Affects the Future??

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 6:37 pm

Many important things happened in LFB. Which do you think affects the future of the Land and the remainder of TCTC the most?

Post by **Reisheiruhime** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 10:39 pm

Duh! TC's rape of Lena... That totally screws up the future. JMHO

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:18 am

That definately seems to be a popular choice!

Post by **Hearts Haven** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 12:22 am

I agree with my daughter Turiya. I'm her mom.

Post by **danlo** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 1:01 am

Welcome Hearts Haven, be welcome and true!--while I agree w/the majority I, as is my nature, went against the grain choosing TC's friendship w/SHFF. Why? I guess emotionally what happens 2 the Giants in TIW and SHFF and TC and Bannor and the jeherrinin and Hotash Slay and the confrontation w/LF in TPTP. Their amazing friendship, laughter, stories. SHFF deep emotions, his doubt, his fear of his own hatred and his understanding of TC. The incredible lessons of caamora that set up the incredible scenes at the end/of TWL. (I though I could make sense, but the "Calling of the Fire Lions" post I made last night is still whipping me out! I still don't fell like I did a very good job because it's such an intense chapter, I really think it would wipe-out any1 who tried!

)

Post by **pitchwife** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:32 am

Welcome Hearts Haven!

Danlo, your effort is greatly appreciated. Thanks for picking up those last two chapters, seems we all needed someone to get us back on track...

I have to go with Danlo on this one. The rape of Lena was Covenant's crime, but his friendship with Foamfollower was the beginning of his redemption. And this is IMO what the first three books are about, Covenant's spiritual journey from the place of a victim to self acceptance.

-pitch

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:43 am

I also wonder if TC would have accepted Vain, such a critical component to the Land's healing, from anyone else OTHER THAN Salty...

Post by **Foamfollower1013** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 10:40 pm

Welcome, Hearts Haven - from the younger half of the other mother/daughter pair around here.

~Foamy~

Post by **Damelon** » Mon Apr 07, 2003 6:31 am

pitchwife wrote: I have to go with Danlo on this one. The rape of Lena was Covenant's crime, but his friendship with Foamfollower was the beginning of his redemption. And this is IMO what the first three books are about, Covenant's spiritual journey from the place of a victim to self acceptance.

-pitch

Explained it better than I could have, Pitch.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 3:56 pm

Plus, the ultimate defeat of Foul in the 1st chronicles was Foamfollower's laughter. Covenant made Foul powerless, but could not destroy him. And he was incapable of healing anyone or anything. But Foamfollower was, and Covenant knew it. He gave the task to the only one who was capable of it.

Post by **Skyweir** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 2:32 pm

I voted for TC's relationship with the bloodguard .. being that they played a significant role in the future of the Land .. 2nd chrons.

but I too agree with the choice of TC's relationship with Foamy .. afterall .. the ah jeherrin dudes were responsible for making Vain .. and as someone else said .. Foamy was the one who gave him to TC .. and that is integral to the future of the Land .. Vain being the staff of law and all ..

So I think that has a greater impact than TC's relationship with the bloodguard ..

and the other scenarios .. imho .. dont really seem to have an impact on the future of the Land in the 2nd chrons.

Post by **Smin** » Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:49 am

TC was always obsessed with rape of Lena through to the end. It was the beginning and the end all in one act of of being human.......

Post by **Dromond** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:20 pm

Well, Triock would have killed TC if not for his oath.
Dead before meeting Salty,the Lords, story over.

Post by **fightingmyinstincts** » Tue May 06, 2003 2:26 pm

I picked SHFF. Notice in the second chrons how often he thinks about his friendship w/SH? I think he thinks about it more than the rape...and it influences his actions some in TOT and WGW like at the one tree and at Revelstone confronting Gibbon Raver.

Post by **Revan** » Tue May 20, 2003 3:05 pm

How can you chose? It's impossible to say. This is something like what would have happened if it did not happen.
TC's rape of Lena - Triock would have got married to Lena, Covenant wouldn't have been summoned to the Land in TPTP, maybe wouldn't have done in TIW. Hile Troy wouldn't have come to the land, therefore no Andelain. No Elena, therefore the LoD would have remained, and the SoL wouldn't have been lost in TPTP, therefore no winter, so a lot less people would have died. The second chronicles wouldn't exist. No Ranyhyn.

TC's friendship with Saltheart Foamfollower - Gave him back his good feelings, No Vain, Lena's Mother would have taken Thomas to Revelstone instead, so he wouldn't be trusted at all. Thomas wouldn't have gotten to the Land in TPTP. Would have died long before Foul's Creche. No sur-jeherrin in the second chronicles, so they would have had a lot of trouble with the skest. The gaints wouldn't have listened to him twice in TWL. Therfore no coamora, no seeing anything outside the land (well we would have, but lets be honest can you imagine four Haruchai, Thomas and Linden, without any clue where anything is, in a little wooded boat actually having a chance of finding anything? Although, not to say it wouldn't be funny that after a months of sailing, seeing them stuck in the middle of the ocean, pitch black, Linden saying severly "Now what are we going to do, thanks Covenant you've just killed us all, that storm destoryed all our food, and we have been turned aside so much that everyone here has fallen out seven time each." And Brinn asking "Ur-lord, what way would you wish us to paddle now?" Thomas "Er, well lets try to get back, just paddle to the Land". The Haruchai just stare at him, blinking....) Em, where was I, ah yes...... oh wait, thats all about done for SHFF.

TC's friendship with Lord Mhoram - I don't think it made a massive difference, because Thomas told Linden he first started to believe that Mhoram could be his friend when they spoke about the unfettered one (Of dreams) And that was the last time they spoke alone to each other, nevertheless Thomas did love Mhoram as much as Bannor, Elena and Foamfollower.

Pietten being given to the Ramen - A lot more Ramen and Ranyhyn would have lived, so would have Lena, we wouldn't have seen Bannor in TPTP, because the Ramen hated the Bloodguard. No healer. maybe no freeing of the Ranyhyn.

Triock choosing to follow his oath of peace - I'm not even going to give this the dignity of an answer.

the Lords gaining the Second Ward - No Revelwood, Lords wouldn't have had the strength to summon Thomas to the Land.

The Lords gaining the Staff of Law - Foul wouldn't have had the Illearth Stone, Drool would rule. The SoL wouldn't have been destroyed. No Covenant in the second book. No second chronicles, because Drool would have killed everyone. No Krill (and the LoL couldn't have been broken by Sunder and Troy), therefore no Amok, no Elena and Thomas mission for the power of command, so Elena wouldn't have made that bone face thingy, so Mhoram wouldn't have learned the secret to the RoD.

TC gaining trust from the Bloodguard - When did this happen, oh anyways there would be no Haruchai in the second chronicles, would have died, most likely wouldn't have found the gaints, and if they did, no sandgorgons, Kemper would have got white gold ring.

LF gaining the Illearth Stone - No dukka, less need to summon Thomas to the Land. No Gaint Ravers, no broken Vow, no reason for gaints to trust Thomas, No sending back Kevin to kill Elena, therefore no Elena to die and come back to be used against the land, so the SoL wouldn't have been destroyed, and I've already explained what would happen if that didn't happen. Thomas wouldn't have been able to touch Foul, because he used the wild magic when ever it was trigger by another power. As Findail wouldn't of said, you believe you are a person of great might, that is untrue. If the Despiser's lust for the Illearth Stone hadn't betrayed him, you would not even stand up against him." And the Bloodguard would have been in the second chronicles.

Do you see what I'm saying, you can't take one of these away because if you do, there is a MASSIVE gap in the stories. Bloody hell, that took along time to write.

Post by **aTOMiC** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 9:18 pm

Well frankly it's Covenant's leprosy. Even before being translated into the Land his illness set his feet upon the path that he now walks.

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:08 pm

Dromond wrote:Well, Triock would have killed TC if not for his oath.
Dead before meeting Salty,the Lords, story over.

I agree.

Post by **Krazy Kat** » Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:01 pm

What if Stephen Donaldson is eaten by a tiger as a small boy in India...the book Lord Fowles-Bain is written instead.

Sorry...I'm just reading the last two chapters to The Stainless Steel Rat Saves the World.

KK

Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:52 am

I'm not sure if this is supposed to be limited to the first trilogy, or the first 2, or all the books entirely.

If it is all of them, I really vote for the blood guard. They are some of my favorite characters, but pretty much nothing with Mhoram or Foamfollower matter beyond book 3. Elena/Lena either, except the collateral damage to the law of death.

Spoiler

But as of book 9, the love of the Haruchai for Covenant is still having a lot of very important ramifications.

If this is limited to books 1-3 then probably the rape, or Foamfollower.

Mhoram is a nice, comforting, non-judgmental person who is great at easing burdens. But Covenant is enough of a stubborn dick that he would probably come to more or less the same ending in book 3, even if Mhoram and everyone else in the land constantly shunned him.

Any relationships between TC and M/FF are over at the end of book 3, and in book 4 the giants are long gone, as are the lords. Covenant retains any warm fuzzies he gained from his friends, but when you get to the level of despair and isolation TC has, you don't need warm fuzzies, they are just nice to have.

A bitter, secluded person who is deep down kind and good doesn't need kindness to get to the end, it just eases burdens y'know?

Also the Triock one is a total blowoff. Come on! If Triock didn't stick to his oath, then SRD would have intervened and had Atiaran reveal her martial arts skilled she picked up at the Loresraat. Or a meteor would fall on him. The book won't end in chapter 7 with the main character getting killed by some angry teenage boy.

Post by **Cord Hurn** » Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:52 am

Triock choosing to follow his oath of peace has the most impact of all the events on this list. Covenant was no match for Triock in combat, would have died quickly, and had no more effect on the land's fate. The Lords would not be forewarned by the message Fangthane gave the Ringthane, Drool Rockworm would have been in charge of Revelstone w/i two years, and Fangthane would have mastery over the land w/i 49 years--unless, of course, someone in the Land figured out how to use the wild magic to oppose him.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Lord Foul's Bane -- Which Most Affects the Future??

Which has the most impact?

Lord Foul's Bane -- Which Most Affects the Future??

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