Lowering the age of consent

[The Dreaming]

Very interesting topic. I wonder why a government will choose to treat young people having sex as criminals. Seems to me like a puritanical minority trying to make legislation that doesn't have anything to do with any real problems. It is really impossible for me to imagine such a policy towards teenage sex actually being enacted. So would offenders be sent to juvenile hall? That seems like a fantastic way to help solve the worlds problems, throw more people in jail. Kids at that.

This issue comes up in America often too. Many groups are reluctant to promote birth control around here, because abstinence should be the first choice. That's why I don’t have a condom machine in my dorm. (and I am an adult for God's sake, albeit an underage adult.)

[Avatar]

I think that part of the reason may lie in the apparent fact that government seems to know of no way to dissuade people from doing things, other than by making those things illegal.

Not that making something illegal is any more effective than educating people against something, and probably less effective in reality.

We've all agreed time and again that whether or not something is illegal is not going to prevent anyone from doing it.

The problem is, every new law creates a whole new criminal class overnight. Previously law-abiding citizens wake one morning and find themselves in violation of the law. Will that stop them? Hell no, although the smart ones will be more circumspect about it.

Law has very little impact on the way we run our lives. We do what we want/need to do, and deal with consequences after. No law will change that.

--Avatar

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Just curious, what was the motivation for the legislation in the first place?

[variol son]

It was hoped that it would protect underage males who have sex with underage females from prosecution.

In one case, a 14 year old boy was almost sent to the Youth Court for Statutory Rape for having sex with a 13 year old girl, despite the fact that it was consentual sex, and they were both underage.

The Government was trying to prevent this from happening again.

Sum sui generis.
Vs

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Makes sense. Most of the discomfort I have for this is probably due to upbringing... I have to wonder if people were introduced to sex closer to the age when sexual feelings arise, if they would be more able to emotionally deal with it. Perhaps the lag time between the introduction of the desire and the performance of the act causes that idea that people have about it being the end-all be-all of romance. But who knows? Not I.

Just seems to be a pretty silly system for people to want to have sex with each other years and years before it's approved.

[Avatar]

I certainly agree that it makes sense. Seems ridiculous to make a crime out of something thats going to happen anyway.

In a sense, one could argue that it's inevitable, given modern society's use of sex as a marketing weapon amongst other things, not to mention the fact that such exposure works in conjunction with a biological imperative as well.

--A

[ZefaLefeLaH]

I started when I was 13. I didn't see anything wrong with it at all. We used birth control & we were in love.

There's something about being young & in love. It's much better than being older & in love. It's all so new & magical.

I don't have a problem with this at all as long as it doesn't mean that a 50yr old can date a 12yr old. Lots of nations have problems like this, maybe not that disproportionate, but it certainly does happen in many countries.

[Plissken]

We simply don't raise kids that're ready for sex at the age of twelve. Back when people that age were expecting to be married soon, there were so many restrictions on sexual activity, and there were so many other life-altering responsibilities that they were dealing with, that perhaps they were ready.

Of course, they also didn't live as long, and I'm sure that -at least for the women- that was due to all of the medical complications that girls who are sexually active before their bodies have fully matured endure.

[Queeaqueg]

You can change the age as much as you want, kids will still do it. All you can do is give them the advice and support that the need.

[Cail]

You know, it's funny in a sad sort of way, but we are raising our kids to be sexually aware, if not active, way too early. A trip to the mall is like going to pre-teen Vegas. 11 and 12-year-old girls parading around in tight lowrider jeans, revealing tops, streetwalker shoes, and those horrible shorts with something like "nasty" written across the butt. We won't even get into the caked-on makeup that looks like the style seen in a 70's porn flick.

Now granted, I grew up in the fashion-retarded 70s, but even still, I'm aghast when I take my daughter shopping. What kind of message are we sending to these kids? Why are they being pushed to grow up that way so quickly?

[Plissken]

Kids push THEMSELVES to grow up early, Cail. As I'm sure you've realized, it's the parents job to not let them. There just aren't many parents who do a very good job of it, anymore.

[Cail]

Ehhh, that may be part of it, but the parents are buying the suggestive clothing, and allowing the kids to wear it.

Jesus Christ when did I turn into a prudish old man?!?!?!?

[Gadget nee Jemcheeta]

Now wait a minute, before you get too hard on yourself Cail (Wow, that's an odd thing to hear me say) I think I am with you on this one.

Parents who want to be fashionable want their kids to be fashionable, and encourage stylish dress. We live in a sexual culture, it's EVERYWHERE!!
Sex is set up as the end all be all to all possible pleasure, and we raise our little boys and little girls to only be attracted to a ridiculous image, to the point that all consumation of sexual desire is kind of like settling for something less than perfect... it's all very gross. I just think that americans at least (because that's where I'm from) are by and large besotten with psycho-sexual issues that run Deep.

[dennisrwood]

as to lowering the age of consent. we have had two recent incidents where
a young girl (both around 14yrs) met a guy online, in his 20s at least. now these girls are missing. lower the age and you will see a push for the age of the sexual partner to be moved up. is there where anyone wants to go? i believe the man/boy love people are still active. NZ seems
to be in for a whole slew of problems...

[Avatar]

I think an excellent point has been made regarding parental culpability in raising children in a sexually aware and active society. I've noticed Cail's example countless times myself.

The one that really sticks in my head was in London, where, walking down a street, I saw a girl of about eleven, with a tiny mini-skirt, heavy makeup, heels and a small tattoo, (fake or not, I couldn't tell) on her ankle.

The thought that struck me instantly was "And they wonder why paedophilia is such an issue here."

Children are trying to be more sexual. Possibly becuase of TV/Marketing etc, which teaches them that they have to be desireable, and their parents are letting them, (or not doing enough to discourage it).

Nothing we do now is going to prevent it. No amount of prohibition has ever stopped anyone from doing something that they really want to, and that is unlikely to change.

Permitting it legally will probably cause a push for the permissable age of partners to be increased, although I'm not sure that government or the people will accept it, some people will no doubt use the attempt as a defense against prosecution. Then again, if it is demonstrably consensual, where can we draw a line, if we cleave to the idea that age is not important?

Obviously going to be a sensitive issue.

--Avatar

[dennisrwood]

Avatar,
it's that damn slippery slope isn't it. we can enact a law preventing kids from being prosecuted. but the pedophiles will be right there to claim that they are being persecuted. the abdication of parental responsibility is truly frightening. when i go to the mall, i can only shake my head in disgust. teens up late, not supervised, dressed for easy access. and the shock when the kid gets pregnant or a disease.

[Avatar]

Yep. Where and how do we draw that line? I don't know.

And I agree with the thought that parents are, to some extent at least, responsible. If nothing else, and they're going to allow their children to act this way, they should be educating them intensively about the dangers and implications.

--A

[Cail]

And I agree with the thought that parents are, to some extent at least, responsible. If nothing else, and they're going to allow their children to act this way, they should be educating them intensively about the dangers and implications.

I don't know if this is a difference in culture or just your beliefs Av, but over here, parents are (legally) completely responsible for minor children. Now, as often as not, we give parents a pass on that responsibility, but the law is still there.

To my mind, parents that allow their children to dress like hookers are negligent. But that's me, I take a very hard line when it comes to parenting.

[Plissken]

Cail, you and I "became old men" when we became responsible for our children. For me, imagining my baby girl as a teenager (she's getting there now) was both torture and penance for my own VERY sexually active teen years. (Suddenly, all those old girlfriends were some other guys daughters.)

The problem today is different than it was when we were kids, though. Kids have always wanted to "grow up fast", and being "sexy" has always been a part of it, but back then I think that the parents were just too trusting. Today, parents won't even try to control how their kids DRESS, and I think that -for most of them- it's because they don't want their children to yell at them.

[Cail]

Yeah, how sad is that. If I'd only known in high school and college what the payback was for my "zest for life", I might have re-thunk it.....maybe.

I've actually heard parents say that they don't want to upset their kids, and don't want their kids to be angry with them. All I can do is shake my head. When they're older you can worry about being their friend, through the formative years, you've got to be a source of structure and discipline.