Moderators: kevinswatch, Orlion
That came to mind as soon as I read about her. Well, what I mean is that Lord Foul is a master manipulator and everything that happened was to his workings. Elena's past was shaped by Foul so that she could break the Law of Death.Nav wrote:An interesting line in the What has Gone Before prologue to Runes mentioned that Elena wasn't really sane, although no one could see it except Covenant. I'd never really thought of her like that before, but looking back it now seems like quite a profound statement.
While I understand your perspective I disagree STRONGLY with your statement. It's blaming the victims for the crime! TC's lack of control, no matter how "understandable", is to blame. And that lack led to Atiarian trying to call TC and getting Hile Troy and all his mistakes; Elena and her madness and breaking the Law of Death and losing the Staff of Law; and the desecration of Revelstone by Trell.no_limits wrote:have to disagree on this one. TC was a leper, impotent. The whole land is to blame for the rape of lena not TC. he was damned from the beginning.
if we take it further then the creator is to blame for choosing TC in the first place.
Well, I have to disagree with that. When we had dinner with Donaldson he told us that the rape was a horrible crime that Covenant committed. Covenant has the power to change worlds -- both for good and also for ill -- and the rape of an innocent girl showed the ill he is capable of.no_limits wrote:have to disagree on this one. TC was a leper, impotent. The whole land is to blame for the rape of lena not TC. he was damned from the beginning.
I was always under the impression that Linden Avery had somehow restored the Law at the somewhat cryptic ending of WGW...Creator wrote:SRD wrote:It follows, therefore, that between them Caer-Caveral [whose death broke the law of life] and Elena [who used Earthblood to break the law of death] have opened the door for the utter destruction of the Earth.
Any one notice this comment? Thoughts?
I thought as you did, too, MrKABC, but it seems we were assuming falsely. Linden wasn't actually "restoring" the old Law, she was creating a new one: "within the new Law which she set forth..."MrKABC wrote:I was always under the impression that Linden Avery had somehow restored the Law at the somewhat cryptic ending of WGW...
"...in spite of herself, she was fading, and could not help from being hurt. But even pestilence was a distortion of the truth. It had its clear place and purpose. When it was reduced, it fit within the new Law which she set forth..."
Of course, Linden Avery was restoring the Earthpower from the Sunbane, but wouldn't you assume that the Law of Death and the Law of Life would also have been fixed in that restoration?
Isn't that a tremendous reply from SRD? It totally knocked me over!Peter Hunt: Mr Donaldson,
thank you for 20 years of wonderful and immersive storytelling. I was lucky enough to meet you during your visit to San Francisco last month, but was too awe-struck to be coherant when you signed my copy of Runes. So please accept my thanks retrospectively <g>.
Can you help me understand the relationship between Law, Earthpower and the Staff of Law? Am I right in thinking that the destruction of the Staff weakened the structure of Law? Did that destruction make existing Laws easier to break, and Earthpower easier to corrupt?
Did the creation of the new Staff at the end of the Second Chronicles restore the broken Laws (of death, Life, etc)?
These matters are all so intuitively, well, obvious to me that I find it difficult to actually explain them. <sigh>
Let's start with Law (structure, rules, governing principles) and Earthpower (energy, vital substance). Think of our solar system. If the planets weren't in furious motion (energy), they would fall into the sun and burn up: if the planets weren't tethered by gravity (structure), they would simply sail away. Without that balance between energy and constraint, nothing could exist. (Of course, to a physicist, it's all energy in one form of another. But still the energy of gravity has to balance the energy of motion, or else nothing could exist.)
Now. The Staff of Law was created as a means to wield the energy of Earthpower safely--i.e. without violating the various constraints of Law. But because this is magic rather than technology (because it deals in symbolic unities rather than in discrete mechanisms), the Staff cannot be inherently separate from the forces and rules which it exerts. It's not a light switch, essentially distinct from the flow of electricity which it enables. In a certain sense, the Staff *is* both Law and Earthpower, just as white gold *is* wild magic. In fantasy, in magic, the tool cannot be distinguished from what the tool does.
So. Even though the Staff was never essential to the original existence of either Law or Earthpower, the simple fact of its creation means that it participates in both, and can therefore: a) strengthen both, or b) weaken both (by being destroyed). So yes, the destruction of the original Staff weakened the structure of Law.
But. This is does *not* imply that Linden's creation of a new Staff *automatically* restores the structure of Law to its original form. A tool has to be used to be effective; and the person using the tool has to know what he/she is doing. Linden, and then Sunder and Hollian, clearly have the spirit and the heart to use the Staff effectively; but they don't necessarily have the lore, the knowledge, to accomplish everything that the Staff is capable of doing. (The absence of runes on the new Staff is not an accident.) Also the new Staff is profoundly different than Berek's original creation. It was formed, not from the wood of the One Tree, but from one sentient (Findail) and one quasi-sentient (Vain) being, each of whose nature affects the inherent qualities of both the new Staff and what the new Staff can do. (And then there's the interesting question of whether Sunder and Hollian would actually *want* to heal the broken Law of Life, since by doing so they might undo themselves.) And in addition: when the new Staff was created, it became an inherent participant in both Law and Earthpower, just as Berek's did; BUT the *condition* of Law and Earthpower when Linden created her Staff was different than it was when Berek created his; and therefore the *condition* of the new Staff is also different.
So. The creation of the new Staff did not *in itself* restore the broken Laws of Death and Life. Presumably it *could*. If the right wielder used it in the right way. But that hasn't happened yet.
<whew>
(12/20/2004)
Wow! Thanks for bringing that bit to my attention again... that knocked me for a loop. I realize now that everything that made up who Linden is and her beliefs are now the new Law of the Land. Interesting."...in spite of herself, she was fading, and could not help from being hurt. But even pestilence was a distortion of the truth. It had its clear place and purpose. When it was reduced, it fit within the new Law which she set forth..."
