Matrixman's Mahler Mania

[duchess of malfi]

I've never been able to get into Beethoven's Third, either -- though I love his Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, and Ninth.

[Worm of Despite]

I've never been able to get into Beethoven's Third, either -- though I love his Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, and Ninth.

Whaaaaaaaaaat!!!

[duchess of malfi]

[matrixman]

I remember Simon Rattle's recording of the 2nd got tons of attention. Great reviews and awards. A customer who knew lots about Mahler told me, "I used to think I knew what the 2nd sounded like. Then I heard Rattle, and realized I didn't. Now I do."

See, this is where I get into trouble. I know Mahler's music mostly through Bernstein and Karajan, but that's only because they've consistently been regarded as two of the most authoritative interpreters of Mahler. I never heard Rattle's acclaimed recording of the 2nd Symphony, but I have no doubt that it must be a powerful performance. I know the sound of the CBSO under Rattle via their awesome recording of Benjamin Britten's War Requiem, so I'm aware of the kind of fire Rattle is capable of. Rattle is arguably the most charismatic and gifted conductor since the days of the Bernstein-Solti-Karajan triumvirate, so it's no surprise that he got the job as director of the Berlin Philharmonic. Rattle is perhaps the true heir to Karajan at Berlin, not the lackluster Claudio Abbado whom Rattle replaced.

Anyway, back to Mahler's 2nd. Rattle's recording aside, it's hard to imagine anybody outdoing Bernstein in this work in his live performance with the New York Philharmonic from the late 1980s--part of his last cycle through Mahler's symphonies before his death in 1990. Bernstein was a guy who knew how to wring the last bit of pathos and anguish from every note of Mahler, and since he knew these last concerts were to be his final statement on Mahler, Lenny just let it all hang. I mentioned to duchess about how the 1st movement might jangle the nerves of the listener: well, that was my state after listening to this particular performance by Bernstein. I don't listen to it much, because I can only take so much neurotic intensity in my music listening without becoming a nervous wreck.

Another of Bernstein's last Mahler performances that had me on edge was that of the 6th Symphony--often said to be Mahler's most "biographical", and most despairing work. Whether it was Mahler, or just Bernstein emoting the hell out of the music, the Sixth frankly scared the crap out of me, and it remains the only piece of classical music to have done that to me. It was the ending that blew the lights out. The symphony ends with three "hammer-blows of fate"--prophetic seeming because Mahler would indeed suffer three blows three years later in his life: the death of his daughter, his forced resignation from the Vienna Opera, and the diagnosis of his ultimately fatal heart condition. So the Sixth is maybe more "biographical" than Mahler's other symphonies because it's here that he comes closest to depicting himself in music as the tragic hero who suffers through doubt and temporary triumphs but is ultimately defeated. The final "hammer-blow" fells the hero. Beyond talk of Mahler's obssession with death, however, it's the power of the music itself in all its naked passion that does the talking. But sheesh, it's one crazy way to spend an evening of music listening. Not exactly relaxing after-dinner material. Jazz is probably better for encouraging digestion...

Duchess, I know that "hiding under the chair" feeling from listening to the Sixth.

[duchess of malfi]

On the other hand, sounds like something I might enjoy.

[Damelon]

My boss, this week, offered to loan me his complete Mahler Symphony collection so that I could put it on my ipod.

I have the instrumental symphonies already, so it will fill in the gap.

[Fist and Faith]

GO, MM!!! Now that's what I was hoping for when I started the thread!! Thanks for the recommendations.

[Worm of Despite]

Well, I've been going nuts about Mahler...I really want to get the Bernstein cycle. I've got 1,300$ to waste, but, you see, it used to be 2000$ to waste, so I'm being conservative with it these days, heh. In other words, no Mahler until I sell some more stuff or get a job in April (when school ends). Bah.

[matrixman]

My boss, this week, offered to loan me his complete Mahler Symphony collection so that I could put it on my ipod.

That's awfully nice of him, Damelon. If we could bring Mahler to our time, he'd be amazed by (among many things) a contraption that could contain all his huge symphonies in something no bigger than the palm of his hand, like the ipod. To him, it would be technology indistinguishable from magic, to paraphrase Arthur C. Clarke.

I already blabbed about Mahler's 3rd Symphony and Bernstein's last Mahler cycle in the Classical Recommendations thread, so I'll just paste it here:

Gustav Mahler: Symphony No. 3 / New York Philharmonic--Leonard Bernstein, cond. (1987 Live Recording)

Mahler's Third is a monumental construct (the longest symphony, according to the Guinness Book of World Records). It's most remarkable for its gigantic half-hour opening movement. Four shorter movements occupy the middle. The grand concluding movement is nearly as long as the first. Six movements in total. With this symphony, Mahler aimed at nothing less than "constructing a world"--an all-embracing vision of creation.

This particular recording may be my ultimate "desert island" disc. It's an enthralling live performance from the last years of Bernstein's life, part of his final Mahler cycle (he did his first in the Sixties). I feel this peformance of the Third is the crowning glory of the final cycle. Other conductors have emphasized the music's rustic charm and performed it as a breathless portrait of Nature. There is that here, but there is also a gravity to Bernstein's interpretation that I simply don't sense in other, lesser versions. His impassioned vision of this music stands alone. Bernstein was arguably Mahler's greatest champion, and he delivered with this performance. The New York Philharmonic is awesome here, helped by a recorded sound that makes transparent every detail of Mahler's complex score. It could be said that Mahler's symphonies were made for the digital medium because of the music's huge dynamic range.

Sadly, as far as I can tell, the individual CD's of this last Bernstein-Mahler cycle have been deleted from the catalog. If you're willing to empty your wallet, you might be able to get the boxed version, Bernstein/Mahler: The Complete Symphonies & Orchestral Songs (Deutsche Grammophon 459 080-20). It's very handsome, but I don't know if it's still available. Sony Classical re-released Bernstein's 60's-era Mahler records on its midprice label, so that's another option for a great journey through this music.

I could go on like a blathering idiot about the Third. It's just one of those very special pieces of music to me. About its lengthy opening movement: after a couple of listenings to it, I think you'll find that it's actually a very focused and efficiently constructed 30 minutes of music that's only as long as it needs to be to tell its "story." And what is that story? First, we should understand the other movements. Prof. Jeremy Noble in his excellent liner notes for Bernstein's recording writes:

The last five movements were to explore the created world in an order ascending from the flowers of the field and the beasts of the forest, through men and angels, to the love of God.

Mahler wrote these movements before tackling the first one, but in that time he felt he had to drastically re-think the opening. Prof. Noble:

It had originally been conceived as a mere introduction to the rest, a joyful entrance of Summer in all its manifold bounty before the journey of exploration began. But the traversal of that journey in the last five movements had meanwhile compelled Mahler to transform and broaden his original concept of the first. The image of Dionysus with his drunken rout gave way to a more profound one of Pan, standing for the whole of Nature--a Nature, moreover, that must be slowly and painfully wakened from its winter sleep before Summer could make its triumphal entry.

However, Prof. Noble goes on to caution:

In later years Mahler would come to feel that his original movement titles encouraged audiences to regard works like this as "programme-music" and to ignore their inner, expressive meaning in favour of their picturesque outward aspects. But those titles, with the images they convey, are really vital to an understanding of this symphony, always provided that one recognizes them as symbols: like Wagner's, and utterly unlike Debussy's, Mahler's Nature always casts a metaphysical shadow.

The 1st Movement blows me away because it truly seems like a complete symphony unto itself, yet it is most definitely an organic and logical part of the bigger whole. Also, if the march sections seem bizarrely rude or undignified sounding, it's because Mahler always juxtaposes the banal with the sublime in his music. Mahler's Nature isn't a stately, manicured garden but a jungle of terrifying, unpredictable fury.

I love the 2nd Movement for its delicate innocence and charm. The 3rd Movement I love for its haunting post-horn solo: everything stands still when it appears like an otherworldly vision in the middle of the music. It's a remote, forlorn sound that seems to evoke distant memories.

The 4th Movement is a darkly gorgeous setting of Nietzsche's Midnight Song from Also Sprach Zarathustra, sung by contralto. Prof. Noble writes that while for Nietszche self-knowledge does not involve a return to religion, for Mahler it does. It is precisely the recovery of a childlike faith that is Mahler's goal, something "which can only be achieved through a consciousness of sin." Does this resemble the attitude of a certain fictional leper we know?

So from the soul-searching dark depths of the Midnight Song we come to the angelic sound of a children's choir in the 5th Movement, delivering a message of repentance and forgiveness to the sinner.

The grand Adagio that concludes the symphony is entitled "What love tells me" and for Mahler love=God. For me personally, this movement is an expression of serenity and calm victory. This may sound corny, but when I listen to this piece, I feel like I'm in the same emotional state as I am at the conclusion of White Gold Wielder. To me, the emotional connection is not surprising, since "the triumph towards which the symphony has been working is not an external one of action, but rather an inner one of contemplation"--which also describes the kind of calm resolution that ends WGW. So for me, the Third Symphony is like another soundtrack to the Chronicles in my head, and that's one more reason why the Third is special to me.

There are many, many recordings of Mahler's Third out there, and I've only listened to a few besides Bernstein's, but none of those come close to matching the gravity of Lenny's last Mahler performance. However, an anti-recommendation, if I may: don't bother forking your money over for Claudio Abbado's version with the Vienna Philharmonic. Claudio is a nice guy and all, but IMO he's clueless in Mahler. He's basically too polite in his interpretation, and playing Mahler with restraint and decorum is to miss the point of Mahler almost entirely. Oddly, the revered Penguin Guide to Classical Music--a bible of its kind--applauds Abbado precisely for his neat and tidy view of Mahler and criticizes Bernstein for his "exaggerated" style. The Penguin people are the same folks who also disapprove of Canadian pianist Glenn Gould's "eccentric" and "capricious" interpretations of Bach. As the Penguin Guide is a UK-based publication, could there be a bias against North American artists at work here? Who knows.

[duchess of malfi]

Perhaps I just have a less-than-compelling recording. I've been trying to listen to it as I drive. I like my radio around volume setting 10. The average CD sounds good at about setting 18-20. I have been having to play the Third at about 30, can still barely hear parts of it, then get occassionally blasted by other parts. It's been a somewhat irritating sonic experience.

In case anyone is interested in an anti-recommendation, this recording is by the Dallas Symphony Orchestra.

[matrixman]

I know the feeling, duchess. I think the very nature of this symphony creates sonic problems, as it has very quiet passages that are barely audible even when you crank up the volume, like that distant posthorn in the 3rd movement. But I guess Mahler intended that things like that posthorn should sound far away; I find that the only way for me to really hear all of it is to use headphones in order to block out the ambient noise around me. Unless you have an absolutely quiet room (with sound-absorbing walls!) in your house for music listening, it'll be hard to hear the extreme pianissimo moments in Mahler through your speakers--maybe especially in this symphony. So it seems like there's just silence playing, and then suddenly your ears are blasted.

Then again, Mahler couldn't imagine that his music would be experienced by us in our cars or our noisy modern living spaces (or on our Ipods). In the pristine acoustical space of a symphony concert hall, it's no problem hearing the quietest details. But not all concert halls have perfect acoustics, so the choice of venue definitely affects the sound quality of a recording. Maybe the Dallas Symphony Orchestra wasn't recorded in the most ideal place; if it was done in the studio, then maybe the sound engineers didn't do a good job; and the sonic problems were then perhaps exacerbated by the stray running noise of your car. Or maybe the orchestra under that particular conductor (who shall remain nameless?) just doesn't do Mahler very well.

Even the live Bernstein recordings I'm babbling on about are variable in their sound quality, since he did not use the same orchestra and venue for all the concerts. However, the sound is generally quite good in all the concerts, because the Deutsche Grammaphon technicians are among the best in the business. I haven't heard Bernstein's Mahler recordings from the 1960's with the New York Philharmonic, but I will one of these days (and at mid-price, they're not too painful on my budget). Most reviewers seem to prefer Bernstein in these 60's recordings over his later Mahler performances. I suspect that the sound of the 60's recordings (now remastered) are more uniform all-round, and I've a hunch that the bright and warm analog sound of that era should translate into a more pleasing car audio experience.

[duchess of malfi]

Ok, MM. I brought in my CD wallet from the Jeep.

My copy of the Second, which I really like, is from the Decca Legends collection. It is a "Legendary Performance" from 1975, and is performed by the Wiener Philharmonic under Zubin Mehta.

The Third, which seems to have very uneven sound quality, as I stated previously, is on Delos records, and is performed by the Dallas Symphony Orchestra and Chorus under Andrew Litton.

If I can find time, I will listen to it in my bedroom rather than in my Jeep and see if the sound quality is less of a problem.

I will probably order the Sixth next time I go to Amazon. Fist tracked down what is supposed to be a fantastic violin recording for me, and I am waiting to get enough together for a free shipping.

[duchess of malfi]

My latest Amazon shipment just arrived. Unlike my probable bad luck with the Third, where I bought the cheapest copy the music store had , I carefully read all of the reviews of the two Mahler symphonies I purchased.

The First -- Pierre Boulez conducting the Chicago Symphony Orchestra--
the reviews said that this conductor is not noted for his Mahler (with the exception of the Sixth, where he gets universal praise).
However, the reviews all mentioned that the CSO brass section did a magnificent job on this particular recording. And we all know how I love badass horn playing.

The Sixth -- Pierre Boulez conducting the Wiener (Vienna) Philharmonic -- all of the reviews were glowing -- plus they managed to cut a few seconds here and there and get it onto one disc instead of two.

Also in my shipment was a CD that Fist tracked down for me. Annie-Sophie Mutter playing Andre Previn's violin concerto. He wrote it for especially for her, and they were later married. When she appeared in Ann Arbor and played it last month everyone said it was some of the finest violin playing anyone had ever heard. He wrote it out of love for her, and she plays it with great love. The name of the concerto is Annie-Sophie.

My kids are out of school this week, so it'll be a few days before I get a chance to hear these. Will get back with you after I do.

[matrixman]

I'm pretty much in awe of Anne-Sophie Mutter. She is the Supreme Goddess of the Violin!

I admire her for her dedication to both the traditional repertoire and to contemporary works by living composers, and she is a master in both areas.

I'm curious about Boulez, too. Have not heard his Mahler recordings.

[Worm of Despite]

Well, tomorrow I'm going down to the local Barnes & Noble and have them order this.

It's really an amazing deal. 12 CDs for a little over 5 dollars each. A steal! I'm glad I didn't buy individual symphonies and found this first!

[duchess of malfi]

That's really cool. Foul. I'm looking forward to both your and Damelon's impressions of your new Mahler tunes.

I can't wait to get a bit of time and listen to the First. You guys know I am a fan of both passionate music and brass. Here is the official Amazon review and you will see why I picked this particular version.

Product Description

Amazon.com
Folks who generally shy away from Boulez's Mahler ought to hear this performance. It's a whale of a good time, plain and simple. Far from being cold and analytical, the first movement positively glows with romantic warmth. Boulez is especially generous with the big retard leading to the first movement's climax, where the Chicago brass literally whoop it up, just as Mahler demands. The second movement is fast, but never lacking in charm, while the funeral march of the third movement has the right quality of cartoon ghoulishness. Good klezmer-like interludes, too, if not quite up to Kubelik's incomparable standard. Best of all, the finale positively blazes--no dragging, no underplayed climaxes--simply a blast from beginning to end. Indeed, it's hard to dismiss the notion that the usually cerebral Boulez is simply getting a naughty thrill letting his Chicagoans play the pants off of this most colorful of romantic symphonies. They've recorded it at least four times previously (for Giulini, Tennstedt, Solti, and Abbado), but this really is Chicago's best. Great sound, as well, with room-shaking bass. Take this to your local stereo store, play the last five minutes, and see if you can dim the lights in your neighborhood while you blow out some woofers. --David Hurwitz

Some of the customer reviews mentioned that the finale with the brass section melted their car steros and the like.

I am ready for a naughty thrill.

[matrixman]

Heh heh, you and your naughty brass, duchess.

I'm aware of the Chicago Symphony's famed brass section. I have that orchestra's version of The Planets, conducted by James Levine. When the Chicago horns start blazing away in Mars, The Bringer of War, it's a pretty sweet sound.

And Foul, you bum! I envy ya. I hope I can get that Bernstein set one of these days, too.

[duchess of malfi]

I actually have a bit of a confession to make. I know it will sound like heresay here at the Watch, but... I have put in for and been approved for a four day weekend next fall. I had originally asked for those days off so I could go to the World Fantasy Convention in Madison, Wisconsin, and hear SRD doing a reading from Fatal Revanant.

I am seriously tempted to go to Chicago for that weekend instead and go to a concert with the Chicago Symphony (the thought of those badass hornplayers is making me droooooooolllllll ) and an opera in Chicago as well.

I do not like the thought of that long drive to Madison, and the train ride to Chicago is relaxing and pleasant. I know the immediate environs of the hotel where I usually stay in Chicago, and it is a good area, and the hotel has plenty of doormen and a taxi stand right in front, has two very good restaurants less than a block away, and a couple of jazz clubs within two blocks. Its in the entertainment district, so there are always tons of people walking around all hours of the days and night. I feel safe there, and would feel safe walking alone to dinner and walking alone to the jazz club a block away, etc.

In Madison I would not know the hotel or the area around it. And there is that long drive, so I would feel tired at least half of the weekend...

And there wouldn't be those badass horn players to listen to in Madison, either.

What a decision...SRD...or badass brass???

I'll probably make up my mind this summer, when the schedules for the CSO and the Lyric Opera people come out.

[danlo]

Zubin Mehta and Andrew Litton are very good conductors! (I've probably heard a share of Mahler but couldn't identify pieces... )

[matrixman]

Well, since SRD is an opera buff, if he had the choice I'll betcha he'd rather be enjoying an opera in Chicago himself than be reading pages from a book in a hotel room somewhere in Madison, heh heh.

Okay, okay, so it's not just any book, but still...maybe if SRD sings a few of the pages...hmm...

Thomas Covenant starring in the Phantom Revenant of the Opera! Get yer tickets now!