ur-viles marking Covenant in PTP

[Borillar]

Hello all,

Seeing as I start a lot of threads that lead to heated arguments, I figured I'd put another one into the mix.

We know that Pietten was "marked" by the ur-viles in LFB, and that the marking was probably connected to his later insanity and blood-lust. In PTP, the ur-viles press their red blades against Covenant's forehead to knock him unconscious, and later, when cleaning the wound there is this said:

"Ur-viles!" Foamfollower muttered at Covenant's injury. "This will not heal. To make you captive, they put their mark upon you."

So was Covenant simply physically scarred by the ur-viles' actions, or was there something deeper that they did to him? Later in the story, Foamfollower fears that the injury might explain why Covenant allowed the ur-viles to put shackles on him in Foul's Creche, but we later understand (I think) that Covenant wanted to face the Despiser and so didn't object to those actions.

[Nerdanel]

Maybe Covenant's lack of choice was for the moment reasonably in line with his true will. When I read the books again I can look at this to see if there's more.

I wonder what happened to the mark afterwards. It could be that the Creator healed the mark, but it could be quite an interesting potential conundrum if the mark is still there in the Last Chronicles. In the Second Chronicles ur-viles worked in the background and hardly met our heroes.

[Xar]

It could simply be that the mark was burned away by wild magic the moment it was triggered by contact with the Illearth Stone... much like Covenant's "blindness" (actually his eyes being still locked in Foul's illusion) was swept away as soon as wild magic erupted from his ring.

[Nerdanel]

Yes, that makes sense. Hile Troy would have been able to use wild magic to break his promise to Caerroil Wildwood, so I think an ur-vile mark wouldn't have had much chance.

[Xar]

My point exactly, Nerdanel... if Covenant's wild magic could break even Foul's Illearth Stone-enhanced power, a simple ur-vile mark would have hardly even been worth a speck of that power.

[wayfriend]

I think that, if you follow the premises of the story up until that point, the ur-viles would not do anything to Covenant except to bind him physically. Covenant's mental state could not be altered, or else the mysterious power of 'giving the ring freely' would be broken. So I think that the purpose of the unhealing wound was merely to subdue Covenant, and also perhaps have him too weak to escape while they journeyed to Foul's Creche. And there is also the dramatic effect of setback piled on setback until it looks hopeless.

[Nerdanel]

Perhaps the ur-viles were careful not to make Covenant do anything, but I think that could be different from making Covenant not do something. So if iron chains were all right, mental chains could also have been. I'm not in any way sure of that, but it's an idea.

Spoiler

In the Last Chronicles the Mahdoubt is getting awfully close to that kind of thing with her charm spells (if you have followed my theories about her.) I wonder what that means to Linden's free will and if the Mahdoubt actually cares about that. It could be that the Mahdoubt preserves her victims' free will while merely excluding some thoughts and choices by altering their perception of things.

It occurred to me in one of those flashes that give me my bizarre theories that perhaps the mysterious bandage that was visible on Kevin's head when he was summoned hides a similar never-healing wound. That would be... symmetrical. It would also be one more reason to explain his despair.

Spoiler

If the wound was given by the Demondim (as the ur-viles inherited their lore from the Demondim) Kevin wouldn't necessarily found it easy to fix.

[dlbpharmd]

Covenant's leprosy was out of control in TPTP, giving another reason why the wound would be slow to heal.

[Borillar]

Just to throw some more fuel on the fire, here's a quote from PTP at the moment in Foul's Creche when Foamfollower realizes that Covenant has surrendered to the ur-viles:

Foamfollower had studied the injury which other ur-viles had done to Covenant, but he could not fathom the depth of a misery which could make a man surrender to Demondim-spawn.

The fact that this injury is mentioned here, many pages after it was originally inflicted, gives it added significance in my mind as something more than a mere physical injury.

[kevinswatch]

The ur-viles marked Covenant???-jay

[Nerdanel]

Foamfollower had studied the injury which other ur-viles had done to Covenant, but he could not fathom the depth of a misery which could make a man surrender to Demondim-spawn.

Whatever the business with the mark, I think this sentence also refers to the fact that Foamfollower was the only Giant who could not fathom the depth of a misery which could make a Giant surrender to a Raver. He's alive because he doesn't understand.

[Borillar]

The ur-viles marked Covenant???-jay

Yup, when they pressed their red blades into Covenant's forehead (after Triock reveals himself as a Raver) and cause him to pass out. At least, I'm pretty sure that's the event that marks him.

[Alynna Lis Eachann]

This just reinforces how necessary it is for me to reread these books.