Kill Bill

[sgt.null]

i fear that QT is experiencing the law of diminishing returns. while i enjoyed Kill Bill, seems hard to believe he took so much time on it.

[Usivius]

I am so alone in this camp of part 1 and 2. I loved part one. I thought it was a brilliant throwback done as only QT can do it with great action, mystery, direction/camera work, and evrything. Even the anime sequence to describe the backstory of the half-Japanese assassin was brilliant.

Part 2 to me was plodding and more QT self-indulgence, liking the words he puts on paper more than the drive of a story. That whole sequence with Bud showing up late at the tittie-bar was a waste of my time. What could have taken 15 seconds and a littel dialogue and acting, went on for what felt like hours and no acting needed whatsoever, just QT's innain dialogue ...

Don't get me wrong, I think when QT is on, he write great stuff, but there are time when he can waste my time.

As I said, I realize I am totally alone in this for NOONE seems to share my opinion that part 2 should have been edited down to make all of Kill Bill one 3 hr. movie.

[Cail]

I'm with you Usivius. I didn't care for part 2 at all.

[taraswizard]

I got one serious question (BTW, IMO Kill Bill is a serious movie), in volume 1 whenever a character is about to say the Bride's given name (I'm phrasing the question this way so anyone's who's not seen volume 2 will not throw a temper tantrum) it's purposely blanked out? Another question, during the movies Quentin uses a single actor for mulitple roles notably Gordon Liu and Michael Parks. What's up with that, cause it's seldom done in movies? There must be some precedence in film history for these two situations?

One part of the two movies I sorta feel is a little over the top and maybe a bit unnecessary is the massive light saber fight (owww! my bad it's the mediocre movie that's got light sabers), sorry sword fight, between the crazy 88s and the Bride before she meets O-Ren Ishii. And the only part that comes close to unnecessary exposition is the Bride's training sessioins with Pei-Mei.

[Usivius]

Before we get to realy know "the Bride" in the second part, part of her mystique is portrayed in the fact that she is only known as "THE BRIDE"...
QT had her real name bleeped out to keep that mystique. But you hear Bill refer to her as "Kiddo" which is actually her last name, and on the plane ticket you can see her name as well.

[Worm of Despite]

One part of the two movies I sorta feel is a little over the top and maybe a bit unnecessary is the massive light saber fight (owww! my bad it's the mediocre movie that's got light sabers), sorry sword fight, between the crazy 88s and the Bride before she meets O-Ren Ishii. And the only part that comes close to unnecessary exposition is the Bride's training sessioins with Pei-Mei.

Funny, cause those sequences were the highlights of both films for me.

[taraswizard]

Well, LF it one was to read my first message about one and two, where I identify them as a classics, guess I did not make it clear I like both movies. My feeling about the big sword fight between the 88s and the Bride is a little colored by how much I really like the build up to that scene starting with Hatori Hanzo taking the Bride up to his attic, following with Hanzo's long dialogue about how this is his most perfect sword that will cut God or Buddha, then O-ren's and her posse's entry into the nightclub and lastly the Bride's combat with Go-Go Yabari. I'm not sure what scene would follow that I would like more than the big fight. I have a real liking for the posses's and O-Ren's power walk, because it reminds lots of a scene from the first season of Angel. (Yes, I know Joss and Quentin both most likely copied from similar sources for the power walk scene. It means both Joss and Quentin copy from the best). I just thnk it's too cool that Joss and Quentin have some of the same influences.

Another scene that has similarities to the Buffyverse is the scene where the Bride digs herself out of her grave, and the scene in Buffy's season 6 where Buffy digs herself out of her grave.

Or maybe I'm full of crap and you all can disregard my blathering.

[duchess of malfi]

Watched part 2 this morning, and I think I prefer part 1 a bit over part 2. Now, some parts of part 2 I liked a lot

Spoiler

The Bride's training sessions with the Chinese monk, the escape from the grave, the sequences with Bill at the end...

but some scenes seemed a bit draggy and unneeded,

Spoiler

like the scenes in the bar with Bud.

It was good stuff, though - enjoyed it a lot more than I thought I would, given my strong dislike for violent films.

By the way - is there a spoiler policy for films which have been out a while? I'm never sure in this forum what I need to spoil or not spoil?

[Fist and Faith]

Some awesome stuff from 2:
-EVERYTHING from the time she breaks into Bill's, and learns her daughter is alive to Bill's death.
-Bill and Budd talking about Budd's sword.
-Budd and Elle. ("Now, pay attention. This is the part that pertains to you." )
-Elle and Kiddo's fight.
-Kiddo training with Pai Mei.
-Budd burying Kiddo.

[matrixman]

Pai Mei is so much fun to watch! Tone down the flamboyance just a touch, and he'd make the perfect Chiun (the Master of Sinanju and mentor to Remo Williams - a.k.a. The Destroyer).

Also love Bill's "Superman" speech. However, a friend argues that Bill paints a completely false picture of Superman. Huh? I didn't bother to ask him what the big problem was. It didn't seem worth delving into at the time.

[Fist and Faith]

I remember thinking as your friend does. But I have to watch the scene again before I'll be able to explain.

[taraswizard]

This is not spoilery, but consider Bill's dialogue about super heros, in general. This is a really a meta discussion about the trope of super heros. That Superman does not conform to the normal constraints of the trope, which is that in order to become the hero an ordinary person must put on a costume. Superman is always Superman, and in order to fit in to the ordinary world he has to put on a costume of an ordinary man. Part of his justification for this interpretation of Superman is that the Superman suit are made from the blankets, which came from his true home Krypton, that Superman had as a baby, meaning those are his authentic clothes not the business suit of Clark Kent.

[Worm of Despite]

I really didn't buy into the whole Superman/Clark Kent thing, though I did think it was fascinating. A lot of my favorite dialogues/scenes are usually things that are either: A), completely disagreeing with my personal views/sensibilities or B), completely illogical. Prolly why Clockwork Orange is my #2 film.

[taraswizard]

Well, it would be pretty safe to presume Bill's dialogue regarding the trope of super hero is pretty much Quentin's self insertion into the text. IMO, it's an interesting way of viewing the super hero trope, and I see his point that in some ways Superman is not the same as many super heros.

[dANdeLION]

Okay, I finally sat down and watched them both this weekend. My opinions are pretty much the same as duchess' in that I liked part 1 slightly better than part 2.

[Peven]

near the end, Bill was making the point that Superman, unlike other superheroes, didn't have to put on a costume to be Superman, thats who he was, even his outfit was actually his real clothes, the material from a blanket from Krypton, and it was the clothes of Clark Kent, and the role of Clark himself, that was the costume, the disguise. Bruce Wayne, in comparison, was Bruce Wayne, and the Batman outfit was his disguise, as were other heroes' outfits. Bill said that Superman's portrayal of Clark Kent revealed his view, his critique, of mankind. Bill pointed out that Superman played Clark kent as weak and bumbling because thats how Superman saw mankind. he was trying to make the point that Kiddo was like Superman; she WAS an assassin, a killer, and the role she was playing when he found her about to get married was her own derogative portrayal/disguise of how she looked down on the general public, and that she would have only been able to stay in that disguise for a limited amount of time, hiding from who she really was.

[taraswizard]

What I said.

[matrixman]

Exactly, Peven. Bill's speech makes perfect sense to me. It sums up Superman, and it sums up Kiddo. I wish that those of you who disagreed with Bill would come forward to clarify the reasons for your disagreement. Bill made his case. It's your turn now.

I have no desire to argue this thing to death (this isn't the Tank or the Close), I'd simply like someone to explain to me what was so wrong with what Bill said. (I can't read your minds, people.)

[The Leper Fairy]

I really liked that Superman part too, MM!

"What movie would you like to watch, sweetie?"
"Shogun Assassin!"

[matrixman]

Yeah, Kiddo's daughter is cool! And darned cute, if I may say so.

(Hmm, I never saw Shogun Assassin myself...)