Who or what is Lord Foul's Bane?

[aTOMiC]

The title of the first book in the series may have at one time been explained by SRD, but I am not aware it. I imagine that there are many candidates for an answer. I can easily think of three. Drool Rockworm, The Illearth Stone and of course Thomas Covenant himself.
Any thoughts?

[Fist and Faith]

Covenant.


But if viewed in the other direction, the Illearth Stone is one of the banes Foul put into the Earth when the Creator was creating.

[Furls Fire]

Depends on how you look at it. If you ask..what was the bane of Foul's existance? Then the answer is Covenant. If you ask, what is the bane Foul covets? It's the Illearth Stone.

[aTOMiC]

Interesting point FF. I rather thought that Foul may have thought of Covenant as his unwilling pawn a tool / bane as it were, even if Foul at times treated TC with the respect of an equal. “We are foemen you and I..” and so forth. Of course at other times Foul debased TC with nicknames like “Groveler” and such.

[Zahir]

Or, it can be an unanswered question--how does one become a bane to Despite?

[Furls Fire]

Foul feared Covenant. He feared what Covenant knew of the white gold. It wasn't until the end of TPTP that Foul realized Covenant didn't even know how to use it. All that groveler talk and so forth was just Foul's way of covering up his fear of TC.

[aTOMiC]

There is no doubt that Foul feared Covenant, but Foul strikes me as the kind of arrogant superior being that would never admit it even to himself. In the end what does Foul really have to fear from anyone or anything. He’s managed to survive every foe and situation he has encountered including the Creator himself. I suppose being trapped within the Arc of Time is starting to get on his nerves and his fear stems from a hatred of eternal boredom. Something tells me that his existence may finally be truly at risk with the coming of the Last Chronicles.

[Fist and Faith]

Excellent point about the fear of boredom!! If the Creator could destroy Foul, he probably would have instead of throwing him into the Arch, and he wouldn't be so worried about Foul getting out and hurting everything else. There truly wouldn't seem to be anything for Foul to be afraid of, other than his plans not working out.

[Skyweir]

mmm .. true

it is interesting that the Creator prior to creating the AoT didnt just kill Foul .. but maybe he cant .. or wont ..

Clearly Foul's being an immortal .. would make him being killed or destroyed tricky .. but maybe the Creator cant kill an immortal for a very different reason ..

to obliterate something immortal .. may not be acceptable to the Universal scheme of things ..

mortality can be lost .. but presumably .. immortality of sorts remains .. to all mortals ..
mmm .. ok lost my train of thought LOL

anyway .. I dont think Foul did fear TC .. I agree that he was too arrogant to recognise TC as a personal threat to him .. he was just too cocky to realise that TC was stronger <mentally> than him ..

yeah and i think he called him names .. to make him feel bad about himself .. make him fail .. mess with his head a bit ..

[CovenantJr]

I would imagine that Foul feared the assault wild magic. Presumable he'd never taken a kicking from it before - it wouldn't surprise me if he was worried that it might be sufficient to destroy him, certainly up until Covenant actually hit him with it and he survived.

[Skyweir]

I dont remember Foul being scared .. until it became clear to him .. he was going down!!

but then again .. he just might be a big scaredy cat .. and all along feared what TC could do to him ..

[Fist and Faith]

I think Foul became terrified when he realized he was going to be reduced from his current state. He didn't know what was about to happen, but he knew it wasn't going to be good. And Foamfollower and the Lords laughed, and he was, indeed, reduced. (Of course, he didn't know at the time that he would be using it all to his advantage. Or he probably didn't know?)

[Skyweir]

mmm .. that is interesting

did he contrive it all? .. quite possibly so

[dANdeLION]

"Of course at other times Foul debased TC with nicknames like “Groveler” and such."

I disagree. It wasn't meant as merely debasement, it was meant to coax TC into a frame of mind. Foul wanted TC to use his ring as much as possible, and use it out of anger. Foul reasoned the power of the ring would have made TC drunk with power, and once corrupted, Foul would have owned TC and the white gold.

"Foul feared Covenant. He feared what Covenant knew of the white gold."

I disagree. Foul knew TC couldn't control the ring, though he undoubtedly felt that he could. Don't think for a second that somebody as arrogant, evil and power hungry as Foul would ever harbor fear. He was too busy accumulating more power to think of such things.

"Foul at times treated TC with the respect of an equal. “We are foemen you and I...” and so forth"

I disagree. Foul never respected TC at all. What Foul was doing was goading TC into thinking they were on the same level, thus filling TC with a false sense of power. Then, when TC strode in to battle Foul, TC would be overconfident, and thus more easily defeated.

[Skyweir]

mmm .. i'm with you dan on this

what you said

[aTOMiC]

" I disagree. It wasn't meant as merely debasement, it was meant to coax TC into a frame of mind. Foul wanted TC to use his ring as much as possible, and use it out of anger. Foul reasoned the power of the ring would have made TC drunk with power, and once corrupted, Foul would have owned TC and the white gold." I have to agee with this statement but only as it applied to the Second Chronicles. In my opinion Foul did nothing to encourage TC to use his ring in the first trilogy. It seemed to me that Foul said something to the effect of "You have power but you will never know what it is." That may be a devious dare to gode TC into learning how to use the ring but I doubt it. Keeping TC as powerless and ignorant as possible and creating situations that forced TC to be driven by his guilt and inaction to give up the ring in the end.

[dANdeLION]

"as it applied to the Second Chronicles."

Second Chronicles? Look, I like the Covenant trilogy as much as the next guy, but I don't think we should be quoting scripture to support our views of what was happening in it. So get off my back, you Bible thumper, you!

[danlo]

Oh come on y'all know it was Drool! During the whole book you can hear Foul muttering, "God, I know I could have found a much more competent idiot to wield that damm staff!"

dAN made some excellent points re Foul v. Covenant! Perhaps the Land, itself, was his true bane?

[aTOMiC]

Hell and Bloody Damnation! It was Drool!!!!
(Just so no one gets the wrong idea dAN is my oldest and best friend. We've known each other since we were both 6 years old. We both work at the same company here in Tampa. Expect spirited ribbing between us.)

[Skyweir]

ahhh hah!! .. lol .. so maybe that explains your similar superior intellects!! lol

actually now that i look a tad closer .. i agree clearfrontier ..

i really do think Foul's debasing comments were intended to keep TC feeling deluded and despondent .. that he may more fully surrender himself to 'despair' ..

mmm .. but Foul wanted TC to use the ring in anger too .. anything to have him rend the AoT i guess

mmm .. but he also wanted the ring for himself .. maybe wanted to rip it apart himself ..

mmm ..