Runes, Prolouge, Ch. 2: Gathering Defenses
Moderators: Cord Hurn, danlo, dlbpharmd
- drew
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 7877
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:20 pm
- Location: Canada
- Been thanked: 1 time
- Contact:
Then again, maybe I'm wrong.
NO Burgs..I think you're right (read my above post)
I'd say that if 'Foul had this whole thing planned all along" it would be as cheap as TC waking up in the hospital after it's all over, and everything was a dream
NO Burgs..I think you're right (read my above post)
I'd say that if 'Foul had this whole thing planned all along" it would be as cheap as TC waking up in the hospital after it's all over, and everything was a dream
I thought you were a ripe grape
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
Right...I totally agree. Well said.
By SRDs comments in the GI, it doesn't matter if it's a dream or not anymore. I take that to mean that it's not a dream. We need to accept this as real. Even if it is a dream - although on the surface that makes no sense.
If it is a dream, the realities within that dream have dreadful consequences for whomever has that dream...and if it is a dream, TC had it twice - and now Linden is having it, completely devoid of TC. That would indicate, I think, that if it is a dream, someone is giving them that dream. And if someone is giving them that dream, then it's real. And, of course, "someone" gave that same dream to Linden in the 2nd Chrons.
If that makes any sense at all. It does to me.
By SRDs comments in the GI, it doesn't matter if it's a dream or not anymore. I take that to mean that it's not a dream. We need to accept this as real. Even if it is a dream - although on the surface that makes no sense.
If it is a dream, the realities within that dream have dreadful consequences for whomever has that dream...and if it is a dream, TC had it twice - and now Linden is having it, completely devoid of TC. That would indicate, I think, that if it is a dream, someone is giving them that dream. And if someone is giving them that dream, then it's real. And, of course, "someone" gave that same dream to Linden in the 2nd Chrons.
If that makes any sense at all. It does to me.
"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." (Anais Nin)
- SoulBiter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 9280
- Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:02 am
- Has thanked: 79 times
- Been thanked: 13 times
I have seen people scream in rage when they dont get what they are looking for when they want it.. Even taking the long view of 'I can keep trying until I get out" .. he was sooooooo close... he had the white gold in hand.. freely given. And this one time it could all have been his. But in his arrogance and anger at Covenant for having defeated him the first time, (and perhaps his own fear of being defeated again) he didnt remember that he could have just dismissed TC and then moved on to destroy the arch. (an assumption on my part that TC was only able to act until he was dismissed)burgs wrote:No, no, no - I can't believe it was conscious on Foul's part. If that was so, Foul wouldn't have been screaming in rage at the end of the First and Second Chronicles. He thought he was going to win - both times. Especially the Second. He screamed to the Creator after he acquired the ring - something about "beware mine enemy, I'm gonna wipe your ass up". OK, maybe not in a hillbilly dialect, but I don't feel like looking it up and that sounded funny to me. I'm odd.
Im not saying that this is correct.. Im just saying that I agree with the possibility. Wayfriends theory is possible and plausable. But just as plausable and possible is Burgs contention that Foul doesnt know and didnt know at any point that he would or could be defeated. He is arrogant that way and his arrogance cost him a victory both times.
- drew
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 7877
- Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 4:20 pm
- Location: Canada
- Been thanked: 1 time
- Contact:
You're probebly right!Wayfriend wrote: We're ALL wrong burgs.
Think of hat you though was going to happen in the rest of the first series after the first book, and the seconds series..I'm sure it'll be one heell of a journy
I thought you were a ripe grape
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
a cabernet sauvignon
a bottle in the cellar
the kind you keep for a really long time
I'd say we probably should keep the spoilers in the dissections. There may be newbies reading through, even a few years from now, or people like me who just reread the first 2 trilogies and had to stop reading the dissections because sometimes there were spoilers of things I had forgotten (especially related to WGW, which I'm still in the middle of).
"History is a myth men have agreed upon." - Napoleon
- Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19636
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
- Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19636
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
Burgs, we got it. I was talking about Ur Dead's spoiler. I suppose it does give away the fact that but since it is widely known that the Last Chronicles contains an attack by Lord Foul upon the Arch of Time itself (isn't that the blurb summary?), this isn't really a big revelation, in my opinion. And we've already read that Jeremiah is in the Land, and that Roger might be in the Land. The rest is pure speculation.
Yeah, I know, it will remained spoiler-tagged despite my opinion.
Spoiler
this book deals with time travel,
Yeah, I know, it will remained spoiler-tagged despite my opinion.
- Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19636
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
Lots of great comments here. It's been a lot of fun rereading everything you all have said knowing what we know now.
This song was a big part of the last chapter of WGW, “To Say Farewell.” It was about Linden losing TC.
1st stanza:
2nd stanza:
3rd stanza:
It certainly “covers” her in her new life, with loneliness, inability to let go of the rusty car which took her to see Covenant for the first time, etc.
I think Torrent was right on here:
Several posts here were very interesting in hindsight:
I definitely agree with Relayer and Torrent … the prologue is called, “my heart has rooms.” This entire Prologue is a an example of how Linden has not been able to let go or say Farewell.Relayer wrote:
I really didn't get that either. There's a line that says something to the effect of "Jeremiah filled the hole in her heart that was meant for Covenant." She still longs for TC, more than anything, and misses being able to make such a huge difference like she did in the Land. Somewhere it also says her work now fulfilled her, but in a much smaller way, not like the grandeur of the Land. She seems willing to accept that her life is how it is, but to me it seems that the way SRD wrote it, he wants to convey that something still IS missing.Torrent wrote:Did you really get the impression that her life is complete?Wayfriend wrote:
In chapter one, Linden discusses how her life is fulfilling and complete. There's no hint that there's any unresolved internal struggle, as Covenant had in LFB, as Linden had in TWL. In fact, the author goes out of his way to point out the opposite.
And then the quote that has been referred to several times in this thread (by myself and others):On page 6, SRD wrote:
Closing the door behind her, Linden led him through the edifice where she did the work with which she attempted to fill Covenant’s plce in her heart. His place—and the Land’s—
Inadvertently she remembered the sound of Pitchwife’s voice as he sang,
My heart has rooms that sigh with dust
And ashes in the hearth.
At time the contrast between her experience with Thomas Covenant and her years at Berenford Memorial discouraged her.
Given Bannor’s “we suffice,” I wonder if we can take Linden’s (or SRD’s) word for anything sufficing. Clearly he uses this word when he means exactly the opposite.On page 6, SRD wrote:Surely her contest with the madness of her patients could not compare with the sheer glory of Thomas Covenant’s struggle to redeem the Land. Nevertheless she clsoed her thoat and continued guiding Roger toward Joan’s room. The ache he elicited was familiar to her, and she knew how to bear it.
Her life here was not less than the one she had lived with Covenant. It was only different. Less grand, perhaps: more ambiguous, with smaller triumphs. But it sufficed.
This song was a big part of the last chapter of WGW, “To Say Farewell.” It was about Linden losing TC.
1st stanza:
Even dust and ash is dear (to Linden), because of how it reminds her of TC. That’s not a particularly healthy attitude.In WGW, SRD wrote:My heart has rooms that sigh with dust
And ashes in the hearth.
They must be cleaned and blown away
By daylight’s breath.
But I cannot essay the task,
For even dust to me is dear;
For dust and ashes still recall,
My love was here.
2nd stanza:
So she can’t let go, can’t say farewell, can’t bear that “these rooms” are empty.In WGW, SRD wrote:I know not how to say Farewell,
When Farewell is the word
That stays alone for me to say
Or will be heard.
But I cannot speak out that word
Or ever let my loved one go:
How can I bear it that these rooms
Are empty so?
3rd stanza:
That’s pretty sick, when you think about it. She sits in the dust and hopes it covers her? Sounds like she got her wish!In WGW, SRD wrote:I sit among the dust and hope
That dust will cover me.
I stir the ashes in the hearth,
Though cold they be.
I cannot bear to close the door,
To seal my loneliness away
While dust and ashes yet remain
Of my love’s day.
Spoiler
[Is this dust “Kevin’s Dirt?!?]
I think Torrent was right on here:
Both Linden and Bannor basically said, "I sufficed" when they didn't.Torrent wrote:Linden's inability to let go and move on indicates something else, maybe some kind of pride or arrogance on her part (because it is human to make mistakes and to have emotional and physical needs); makes me think of the pride of the Haruchai and the oath of the boodguard (but maybe this is too far-fetched)
And yet TC still needed to resolve some issues, right? TC went twice, and he did so because he still had issues to resolve; he had to find another anwer to the problem of Despite. I don’t think Linden found the Final Answer to the problem of Despite, either. Previous answers have always been temporary.Wayfriend wrote: I think that whatever demons Linden had, they were dealt with by her first visit to the Land.
...
I find the Linden at the start of Runes to be very similar to the Covenant we see described after returning from his first defeat of Lord Foul. There are no sweeping changes in his life, he still has leprosy, he is still shunned, he still hangs out at Haven Farm. But he is changed inside - he is no longer tormented by it, instead he is capable of accepting it and living vitally within its confines. The changes are internal, not external; the outward characterstics are not changed much. His life is spare, but it's a good life nonetheless.
Several posts here were very interesting in hindsight:
Torrent wrote: I don't want to speculate too much either, because I like being surprised, but does Jeremiah necessarily have to be one of the good guys?
Caamora wrote: Well, I always thought that Jeremiah's autism was induced because part of him was left in the Land. He was at the weird seance thing that killed TC in the second chrons. His hand was in the fire and maybe that connected him to the Land in such a way that when the weird seance thing was over, part of him was still in the Land. That is why he builds landmarks from the Land with his erector (and lego) sets.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
Interesting thought in the spoiler tag, I wonder if there's some analogy there.Zarathustra wrote:That’s pretty sick, when you think about it. She sits in the dust and hopes it covers her? Sounds like she got her wish!It certainly “covers” her in her new life, with loneliness, inability to let go of the rusty car which took her to see Covenant for the first time, etc.Spoiler
[Is this dust “Kevin’s Dirt?!?]
ps. I'm really glad you found some new things to say!!
"History is a myth men have agreed upon." - Napoleon
- Zarathustra
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 19636
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am