Jeyne Westerling

[variol son]

I was re-reading A Storm of Swords the other day and happened across some intersteing iformation about Robb Stark's young wife and her family.

When Tyrion is asking Lord Tywin why Robb would be stupid enough to throw away the Freys for Jeyne, his father replies:

Jeyne Westerling is her mother's daughter and Robb Stark is his father's son.

However, the only information we have about Jeyne's mother comes on the previous page:

Gawen (Jeyne's father) is a good man but his wife is Sybell Spicer.

Lady Sybell's grandfather was a trader in saffron and pepper, almost as lowborn as that smuggler Stannis keeps. And the grandmother was some woman he'd brought back from the east. A frightening old crone, supposed to be a priestess. Maegi, they called her. No one could pronounce her real name. Half of Lannisport used to go to her for cures and love potions and the like.

So, given that this is all we know about Lady Sybell, what does it say about Jeyne that she could be described as "her mother's daughter"?

Also, when Tyrion asks why Lord Westerling would betray House Lannister, and did he not remember the lessons of Tarbeck Hall and Castamere (other houses to try and betray Lord Tywin, they were both subsequently ruined by him), Lord Tywin responds:

They are well aware of Castamere, I promise you.

So, were Jeyne or her parents working for Tywin Lannister from the beginning? Did Jeyne seduce him so as to break his alliance with Walder Frey?

Which lead me to a final question. When Catelyn tells Jeyne that Robb needs a son, Jeyne says that this is what her mother had been saying as well and that she drinks some sort of potion every day to make her more fertile. What if Jeyne Westerling is pregnant with Robb Stark's child?

[Caer Bombadil]

(disclosure: completed ASoS so far, not got AF4C yet)

It does seem to me that a son of Robb was pretty broadly adumbrated. I guess the next 3 installments of ASoI&F will have to cover some long spans of time for him to do something significant, tho.

(I'm still disappointed about the outcome of Jon + Ygritte, but that's GRRM for you. Anybody else rooting against the odds for Tyrion + Sansa?)

However, considering what became of Catelyn, and Danaerys' vision in the House of the Undying, and the fact that maegi and R'hollorism are involved, I just can't help but think we haven't seen the last of Robb himself, and Grey Wind (shudder!)

[duchess of malfi]

I believe that Lady Westerling was actually giving her daughter some sort of birth control herb (perhaps tansy in the tea?) to prevent a pregnancy. The last thing Tywin would have wanted was a legitamate male heir for Robb. I believe that she and her brother were the heart of the conspiracy (along with the Freys and Tywin) to bring down Robb.

AFFC spoilers:

Spoiler

It is pretty clear from AFFC that Jeyne and her brother did not know about the Red Wedding or the conspiracy against Robb. The young widow's grief seems very real to me; it was very moving to discover that her brother was willing to give his life to protect Grey Wind.

I think Jeyne was just a pawn in the Game of Thrones.

Also, if Jeyne were pregnant, wouldn't she be showing by the time Jaime sees her? How many months have gone by at that point?

More AFFC spoilers:

Spoiler

I have wondered if the Spicer grandmother might be the old crone/witch involved in Cercei's childhood remembrences.

[Warmark]

Spoiler

Also by the time of AFFC a pregnancy would be noticable, its been months since the Red Wedding - Time for Jaime to travel to KL and back again to Riverrunn - If she were pregnant she would be showing.

[Caer Bombadil]

At least the girl did not vanish too.

Could something important hinge on a question of "booty" - ?

Spoiler

In ASoS, not just once, but at least twice, GRRM had Catalyn note that Jeyne Westerling had "good hips".

Yet the girl brought before Jaime near the end of AF4C was described as having "narrow hips."

Am I just revealing too much about my own personal tastes in women, or wouldn't Catalyn's idea of "good" hips, given especially she was thinking in terms of Robb producing an heir ASAP, mean not at all narrow?

It seems clear to me we're dealing with yet another imposture. The real Jeyne, lil' wolf whelp in her tummy and all, is loose somewhere. Therefore the previous observations about the progress of the pregnancy take on some meaning too. That girl is probably some commoner, coached to loudly profess love for Robb (& she didn't seem as sweet, polite, and demure, as Jeyne with Catelyn in ASoS either).

Oh,& BTW I agree that Maggy the Frog is almost certainly one and the same as Jeyne's grandmother, but what significance that has I couldn't say. Perhaps Jeyne's child will combine the Stark wolf affinity and the presumed psychic abilities of the Maegi - a Super-Direwolf-Man?

[danlo]

Highly interesting post Caer!

Spoiler

So then would we have to name Robb's hier...Esmer?