Runes, Part 2 Chapter 9-Pursuit

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Runes, Part 2 Chapter 9-Pursuit

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Linden brought the company and the pursuing Demondim into the caesure to avoid destroying The Arch Of Time by changing the history. Again the pain, the disorientation and the sensory insanity was the same. It’s like every moment in time in the caesure’s way attacks her and torments her. On the other hand it’s also different from the first time. Time is moving forward this time, there are no ur-viles protecting her and she does not encouter Joan’s distorted mind. And she has the ring. Wild Magic.
Covenant’s ring shone like a beacon through the fabric of her shirt, lighting her way to survival. Wild magic was in some sense as disruptive as the caesure, untrammeled by restriction. For that reason, it had the power to violate the strictures of time. For the same reason, however, white gold formed the keystone of the Arch Of Time. Its unfettered passion anchored the paradox which made finite existence possible within the infinite universe.
Similarly the hot blaze of Linden’s heart anchored her within herself, enabled her to continue to be who she was when every mote and particle of herspecific being had been torn asunder.
Just love that sentence in the middle: ”It’s unfettered passion…”

Only moments later they arrive on a grassy slope somewhere in broad daylight with the sun shining. Stave, Liand with the Staff of Law, Anele, Marthiir, Phani, Bhapa, the Waynhim, ur-viles...and then the Demondim...And above and behind, the huge fall.She had brought them to this time to fight them but for a while they would be able to outrun them and gather their strength. Linden intends to strike at them as soon as she knows where and when she is. She soon realises that "where" isn't where they entered the Fall, that is certain. The company rushes onward pulling slowly away from from The Horde of Demondim. Now, a score of heartbeats later, that would be seconds then after leaving the fall, perhaps a minute, she decides to turn against the horde. She reaches for the Staff which is held by Liand and leaves the company and rushes back from where she exited the fall. Stave and Liand accompanies her. All the others rushes on forward. Riding past Martiir and Phani, ur-viles and Waynhim, those are the last, she stops and looks out at the horde.
Linden could not discern them precisely. They wavered in and out of definition as they passed in front of rippled glass. At one moment, they appeared as tangible as flesh and pain: at the next, they were translucent, nearly invisible. Whenever she tried to focus on a specific creature, it blurred away and then emerged several paces closer to her. And as the Demondim advanced, their forms steamed and frothed like acid.
Some creatures! Pulsating kind of, in and out of existence...

Still not sure of when and where she steps down from Hyn, puts the Staff to the ground andchallenges the Demondim. The "confusion" among them gives her the time that she needs.
Nevertheless they had given Linden enough time. As the horde paused she leaped past it in her mind to confront the fall...
...With percipience to guide her, she raised the Staff, directed it over the heads of the Demondim, and unleashed it's warm puissance into the swarming core of the caesure. From the iron shod end of the wood, flame the rich yellow hue of sunflowers and corn lashed out, a streaming ceaseless flail of fire. The Fall was huge: she had made it so And it had fed on millenia of severed instants. But the Staff Of Law could draw on the fathomless reservoir of Earthpower which defined the Land. Indeed, it's possibilities were limited only by the capacities of it's wielder. YeAnd Linden had already proved herself equal to the sunbane. The evil before her now was enormous and consuming. Yet it was a small thing in comparison. Challenged by the direct vitality of the Staff, the Fall failed rapidly.
Oh, this means...Linden can rid the Land of Falls! (At least those of her own making). We have encountered three before but her own haven't we...Tired now, unable to move Stave saves her, throughs her up on Hyn and leaves. She gains her power anew by using the Staff on her self. Stave and Liand is unhurt but the approacheng Ramen and Marthiir and Phani are sorely so, even the horses are "scorred with corrosion"

Then Liand points out to her:
Have you beheld it?
Revelstone, they are just outside Revelstone, a few hundred paces. Linden can't believe her eyes and demand of Stave to explain it:
"I have said that I would bear tidings to the Masters. When we entered the Fall, you asked no clear destination of the Ranyhyn. Therefore they heeded me. Answering my will, they have borne us hither."
The Ranyhyn seem truly to be time-traveller of sorts, being able to choose both time and space-coordinates at will. Or is it the closeness to white gold that makes it possible, or have they been able to do it as long as there has been caesures. Also, they agreed to Staves will, that would imply that it was perhaps their purpose to end up at Revelstone, they do his bidding because they believe it is the right thing to do. And besides, why didn't Stave tell Linden about what he was doing. Was he not certain he would succeed. It was of utmost importance to Linden to know what time and place she would end up at....Anyway, SRD writes at lenght here, where only seconds or perhaps minutes passes, bare that in mind, this goes for the whole chapter actually...

The importance of Revelsone becomes clear to Linden as she remembers Jeremiah's Lego-image of it, and Stave wanting them there...and watching the condition of her companions, the damaged Ramen Marthiir, Phani, the unconsious Bhapa, Waynhim, few and exhausted ur-viles, she realises she's the only one who can oppose the Demondim. She confronts Stave once more, demanding answers, what can they do, the Haruchai?
Stave regarded her steadily. Instead of speaking, he extended his hand toward the high bulk of Lord's Keep against it's background of mountains, and at that moment the interlocking stone gates in the base of the watchtower swung open. From the tunnel under the tower, riders cantered outward as if he had summoned them forth. Four abreast, they emerged row after row, first a dozen of them, then a score, two score; more- And still they appeared: more men on horseback than Linden had ever seen at one time. When the last of them had left the darkness under the watchtower, they must have numbered eighty or a hundred.
One hundred Haruchai, riding out of the Keep. What a sight!

And at the same time Stave informs Linden that it is the second day since they entered the Fall. This he has learned by the Haruchai's mind to mind communication.

It is well then, all is set for a great battle...

The horde of Demondim slows down, preparing to make battle to the charging Haruchai. And Anele starts to react, keeps repeating Revelstone, talking about being betrayed...suddenly he starts running, running towards the horde if Waynhim. His aura changes, he becomes the "fire-creature" he once was, leaving burnmarks on the ground and glowing like hot iron...and the Haruchai getting closer, closer still, towards the horde. Linden reaches for her power and finds nothing! Neither ring nor Earthpower. Again, the "fire-creature" is possessing Anele, Esmer? Something else? Of course...But Linden also notices that the transformation took place when Aneles feet touched bare dirt...Another clue. A lot of references to Magma, Lava and so regarding Aneles condition, but again nothing more, very mysterious...

So, Anele, possessed, running against the Demondim, the Haruchai on their horses against the Demondim, Linden, at the moment powerless...and the forces meet!
As the riders struck, conserted emerald as vehement and fatal as the despiser's own ichor erupted in response, coruscating through hues of gems and verdure to the blinding incandescence of sunfire.
In an instant, the conflict became chaos.
Without transition, the screaming horses filled the air. Blood and shredded flesh articulated the dust. The first row of Masters went down like mown wheat, scythed from their mounts by the viscious strenght ot the Vile-spawn and the incarnate puissance of the Illearth Stone.
This is SRD at his best, describing and depicting intense moments with several plots of action intervowen...The last three pages of this chapter is foremost a description of the battle that has begun. With Linden in the midst as our POV, perceptively taking it all in...
...Yet among the tumult Anele remained palpable, vivid to to Linden's discernment: a figure of compacted scoria and rage. He strode some distance into the battle, then paused there as if contemplating carnage. But he struck at none of the creatures. None struck at him. Instead he appeared to gather them about him in swirling eddies which veered closer and then were flung away by the forces of the fight. Her ear for him snatched Linden out of her confusion. Banishing Covenant's ring from her mind, she raised the Staff high; and from it's end shone forth a beacon of flame as yellow as sunshine and as compelling as trumpets.
The trumpet metaphore has SRD used before. Earlier in Runes and in Mordant's Need of course. And the Spaceship Trumpet in The Gap. Anele acts more and more strangely, even when possessed!

Linden ries into battle. Liand Mahrtiir and Phani follows as her protection.
The Demondims force is too large to battle, the Haruchai changing tactics, the Demondim not having used the Stone at it's most powerful, and when "killing" Demondim new forms were rising from the Ground, what horrors...only a matter of time before all Haruchai was killed, and suddenly Anele was gone, disappeared, Linden attempts to go after him but Stave beats her to it, he returns with Anele but is sorely hurt, almost dead, only because he is Haruchai does he still live...And Anele lives, Earthpowewr has sustained him. Linden now uses the power of the Staff to hold the Demondim at bay so that they all can retreat to the Keep, Waynhim, ur-viles, Ramen...they gallop towards the gates of Revelstone, but it seems as if the horde of Femondim let them all slip away, herding them towards the gates...and finally they enter the relative safety of Lord's Keep Revelstone.
The Gates stood open as if in welcome. But no lamps or torches lit the hall beyond them, and the wide jaws of Lord's Keep offered only Darkness.
Closing comments:

Not the meatiest of chapter, it is mainly what the title of it says; pursuit, they are pursued by demondim and end up inside Revelstone, though we learn a few things: Linden can bring the caesures down, Ranyhyn can choose when and where as time-travellers. Doesn't Stave's will imply that he is also aware of this fact? Tere is the Illearth Stone, but where is it?

SRD is such a meticulous writer that every twist and turn in the story is commented on from some point of view, mainly Linden's. Every thought brought as far as it can go, reflections made concerning something also elaborated on. Seconds in the story can take a page or something. So somehow SRD wrest everything he can out of every situation and occasionally it becomes pretty difficult reading, you have to read very carefully, the text demands several readings...There are so many beautiful passages even in this chapter of which I have quoted a few, but they seem sometimes get lost in all observations. The decription of the Demondim are especially vivid, all use of magic is always beautifully written, the description of the battle, Anele possessed...well that was a few comments

kast
Last edited by kastenessen on Sun May 06, 2007 8:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Expansion is meaningless without restriction; restriction is useless without expansion. But put them together and you get, well, a balloon.-SRD
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Thanks, Kast!
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Re: Runes, Part 2 Chapter 9-Pursuit

Post by Tulizar »

Nice dissection kast!

I agree with you about the Haruchai charging the Demondim. What a sight that would be!

For all of my misgivings about the Haruchai robbing the people of the Land of their heritage and shielding them from Earthpower, it was incredible to visualize them charging the unstoppable Demondim horde so that Linden and company might escape to safety. Man, what self-sacrifice. These are the Haruchai of old. Putting their lives on the line to protect their charge. Were their intentions pure? Probably yes if you're a Master, no if you're a Ramen or Anele.

The nicely crafted last line of the chapter should shed some light on their intentions.
The Gates stood open as if in welcome. But no lamps or torches lit the hall beyond them, and the wide jaws of Lord's Keep offered only Darkness.
Like the open gates the Haruchai appear to offer aid to Linden. Yet the jaws of the keep that lead to darkness obviously suggest something ominous.
I think this applies to the Haruchai as Masters in general. They believe they are providing crucial aid to the Land as protectors by keeping the people in the dark about the Land's rich history and Earthpower. The Masters are the doors that are open as if in welcome. Revelstone is the Masters' plans that are obfuscated and offer only darkness to those who dare question them.

I also thought it was well done on SRD's part by forcing me to question who was more responsible for pushing Linden and co into Revelstone. Sure the Demondim horde pushed the group toward the keep, but Stave orchestrated the direction of the caesure via the Ranyhyn. And the Haruchai, by taking up a protective rear guard during the retreat, made certain that the party entered Revelstone.
I know Linden had little choice since she couldn't summon enough power to battle the Demondim, but it still makes me wonder.


I can't wait until Linden gains full control of her Earthpower. I know Kevin's Dirt is a significant factor again, but when she isn't distracted it's amazing what can be accomplished. She was able to create and destroy a massive caesure. She crafted a protective sphere that allowed her to enter the Demondim horde unmolested when looking for Anele. Finally she was able to expand this protection to Liand, Stave and the Ramen. The only time she faltered was when Anele disappeared into the Demondim fray---she couldn't find her power because she was distracted and unable to concentrate. Considering this was accomplished while under the influence of Kevin's Dirt was impressive to say the least. Go Linden!
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Post by Usivius »

I can't wait until Linden gains full control of her Earthpower. I know Kevin's Dirt is a significant factor again, but when she isn't distracted it's amazing what can be accomplished. She was able to create and destroy a massive caesure. She crafted a protective sphere that allowed her to enter the Demondim horde unmolested when looking for Anele. Finally she was able to expand this protection to Liand, Stave and the Ramen. The only time she faltered was when Anele disappeared into the Demondim fray---she couldn't find her power because she was distracted and unable to concentrate. Considering this was accomplished while under the influence of Kevin's Dirt was impressive to say the least. Go Linden!
I so totally agree!
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Post by Relayer »

Good points, and nice dissection Kast!

Tulizar touched on this too... contrast how the chapter begins in Whiteness and ends in Blackness, with where they are. White generally symbolizes purity, etc. yet in this case we are in the caesure. And the blackness is in Revelstone, but normally we would expect this to be a safe haven...

Regarding their arrival at Revelstone, Linden thinks something like "could the Ranyhyn also navigate distance in a fall?" ... but, duh, we've already seen them do this, from the Verge to the South Plains!! Why is she surprised when it happens again?

Of course this has nothing to do with WHY they chose to accept Stave's request. Maybe they're willing to trust (or risk) that in the last, the Haruchai will do the right thing. Or maybe they want Linden to talk to the Masters and would've gone there anyway. The Land does need their aid.

The sight of 100 Haruchai charging into battle!!! Yes!! And they must have known they could not defeat Demondim... truly a suicide mission. This is the Haruchai of yore.

Speaking of Demondim, why haven't they unleashed the Stone? While they know they don't need it to fend off the Haruchai, they probably could have beaten Linden right then and there. What are their true intentions?
Kastenessen wrote:Seconds in the story can take a page or something.
Yes, he really draws out the action this way. At the same time, it seems weird how, for example, the Demondim are not very far behind the party, who can only "gain ground gradually." Yet it seems that Linden has time and space to turn, head back towards them, dismount, think several other things, ignore Liand multiple times... and they're not overrun by the Vile-spawn. The distances seem likewise confused. They're only a few hundred paces from the gates of the Keep... yet it seems to take the Masters a while to ride there, or for Linden and her party to turn and run to get there.

And last, up till now I was really starting to like Liand. But the "Linden!" ... "Linden, have you beheld?" is really annoying. If you have something to say at a time like this, don't be oblique! Major kudos to Linden for just ignoring him.
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Post by Tulizar »

Relayer wrote: Regarding their arrival at Revelstone, Linden thinks something like "could the Ranyhyn also navigate distance in a fall?" ... but, duh, we've already seen them do this, from the Verge to the South Plains!! Why is she surprised when it happens again?

Of course this has nothing to do with WHY they chose to accept Stave's request. Maybe they're willing to trust (or risk) that in the last, the Haruchai will do the right thing. Or maybe they want Linden to talk to the Masters and would've gone there anyway. The Land does need their aid.
Good point. I figured the Ranyhyn would simply know to return Linden to the present when/where she created the caesure. I assumed listening to Stave had something to do with the Ranyhyn obeying their rider's directions. Of course we've seen the Ranyhyn disregard commands before, so if they were opposed to travelling to Revelstone, then I'd say the Ranyhn would have taken the group back to their starting point. I think you're right though--The Ranyhyn felt that Revelstone was the best choice.

Riding the caesure to Revelstone makes sense. The group's options were limited. Where else would you want to make a stand against a massive group of Demondim? At least Linden and the others might have a chance to regroup and hopefully defend themselves, with the aid of the Haruchai.
And last, up till now I was really starting to like Liand. But the "Linden!" ... "Linden, have you beheld?" is really annoying. If you have something to say at a time like this, don't be oblique! Major kudos to Linden for just ignoring him.
Yeah, I was a little disappointed by Liand here. I'm sure he was in awe of Revelstone, but jeez he could potentially be smelted by a bolt of green power yet he keeps bugging the one person who could either defeat the demondim or at least keep them at bay.
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Post by wayfriend »

That's a good review, Kastenessen!
kastenessen wrote:Still not sure of when and where she steps down from Hyn, puts the Staff to the ground andchallenges the Demondim. The "confusion" among them gives her the time that she needs.

There is another cool moment here.
Then, without a word, as if she expected Liand to read her mind, she reached out for the Staff.

He did not fail her. Almost immediately, she felt the smooth wooden shaft slap into her palm.
I can just imagine Linden holding her hand out to the side, her gaze locked dead ahead, like a doctor expecting a scalpal. Then, slap, the Staff is instantly in her hand. Now, that's badass cool. Touche, Esmer!
kastenessen wrote:Oh, this means...Linden can rid the Land of Falls!
Ah, but does this mean she is healing the Arch of Time? And if she is, we have to wonder, is the Arch of Time altered thereby?
kastenessen wrote:And at the same time Stave informs Linden that it is the second day since they entered the Fall. This he has learned by the Haruchai's mind to mind communication.
Which is very interesting. Do they have a standard calendar?

I also got the impression that Stave also arranged for the Haruchai that came out of Revelstone to defend Linden and party. I wonder what that conversation was like ...
kastenessen wrote:It is well then, all is set for a great battle...
... or not.

Once again, the Demondim seem unaccountably impotent.

This is sort of like Monty Python here. The Demondim keep charging towards them ... and never quite getting there. Yeah, they run away on their horses from time to time, but they standing there for a lot of time, too. Just how far away are the Demondim? Do they run slowly or something?
kastenessen wrote:So, Anele, possessed, running against the Demondim
The description of what posessed Anele does, out among the Demondim, is pretty interesting.
He strode some distance into the battle, then paused there as if he were contemplating carnage. But he struck at none of the creatures. None of them struck at him. Instead he appeared to gather them about him in swirling eddies which veered closer and then were flung away by the forces of the fight.
Gathered them about him.If I imagine this scene visually, it seems to me like Anele is giving the Demondim commands.

If Esmer is maneuvering Linden, and the Demondim are maneuvering Linden, then whoever is possessing Anele is maneuvering Linden as well. And didn't we think, earlier in the dissection, that this possessor was none other than (ironically) Kastenessen?

- - - - - - - - - - -
Relayer wrote:Of course this has nothing to do with WHY they chose to accept Stave's request. Maybe they're willing to trust (or risk) that in the last, the Haruchai will do the right thing. Or maybe they want Linden to talk to the Masters and would've gone there anyway. The Land does need their aid.
If you remember that the Ranyhyn also invited Stave to the horserite, and gave him his own message ... if you remember that I think that this means that they want Stave to do something as momentous as anything they might ask of Linden ... then the implications of this act are somewhat more staggering.

- - - - - - - - - - -

There is one amazing passage in here which I do not recall anyone giving any attention. I have highlighted the critical line.
Looking at the Keep now, however, another realization struck Linden like a blow to the heart; another flash of anger and fear.

Her son had tried to warn her.

That also should have been impossible. In his condition, it must have been. Yet Jeremiah, who knew nothing of this place, and had never responded to her love, Jeremiah had used Legos to build an image of Revelstone in her living room only a few hours before Roger Covenant had kidnapped him.

Never having seen them before, he had devised motley models of both Revelstone and Mount Thunder; messages in red and blue and yellow bricks. Using the only language available to him, he had tried to prepare her for his plight-and hers. But she had failed to understand him.

In spite of her chagrin, however, she now knew where to find to him.

But first she needed to reenter Revelstone. That message had become clear to her as well. Why else had Jeremiah included it in his construct?
Linden knows how to find Jeremiah!

And, given the clues, we know the answer: he must be in Mount Thunder!

No other answer, AT THIS POINT, makes any sense.
Spoiler
Of course, the last page of Runes throws all of this completely out the window. Or, he asked with a conspiratorial wink, does it? Why does Donaldson say this line here if it does not have any meaning?!?!
- - - - - - - - -

:?: Before Anele is possessed, he cries, "Anele is betrayed. You have given him to them." With "them" being delightfully ambiguous. He has never claimed that "they" are the Masters, has he?
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Before Anele is possessed, he cries, "Anele is betrayed. You have given him to them." With "them" being delightfully ambiguous. He has never claimed that "they" are the Masters, has he?
But isn't Anele looking to Revelstone as he says this?
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Post by wayfriend »

dlbpharmd wrote:
Before Anele is possessed, he cries, "Anele is betrayed. You have given him to them." With "them" being delightfully ambiguous. He has never claimed that "they" are the Masters, has he?
But isn't Anele looking to Revelstone as he says this?
Indeed.

Are the masters the only ones who dwell there?
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Hmmmm - good question.
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Post by Relayer »

Wayfriend wrote:Once again, the Demondim seem unaccountably impotent.

This is sort of like Monty Python here. The Demondim keep charging towards them ... and never quite getting there. Yeah, they run away on their horses from time to time, but they standing there for a lot of time, too. Just how far away are the Demondim? Do they run slowly or something?
Yes, this is the same thing I asked. You know, it doesn't seem that they have initiated an attack on anyone. In the previous chapter, they come "boiling up the slope." Obviously, we assume that they are attacking. But all of the conflict that takes place seems to be initiated by the waynhim/urviles. And in this chapter, it's initiated by the Masters. But they don't use the Stone, don't really seem to strike out at the Masters or anyone. They allow Anele to pass through them, then Linden (granted, each of them wields significant power of some sort). Stave is badly burned, but we don't know how...

I suspect that they are not at all what they seem to be - what we assume them to be. The part where Anele appears to command the Demondim is quite intriguing. Perhaps these Demondim are somehow different than those known to the Land's past. Perhaps the Stone is being used to control them. Or maybe Esmer's true betrayal isn't in bringing the Demondim... they might be chased by someone/something else, whom we haven't seen yet. Skurj? Kasty? Croyel? Amnion? Rogue Imagers?

btw, if there's info about this in the FR preview, I don't know, and don't want to :)
Wayfriend wrote:There is one amazing passage in here which I do not recall anyone giving any attention. I have highlighted the critical line.
In spite of her chagrin, however, she now knew where to find to him.

But first she needed to reenter Revelstone. That message had become clear to her as well. Why else had Jeremiah included it in his construct?[/size]
Linden knows how to find Jeremiah!

And, given the clues, we know the answer: he must be in Mount Thunder!

No other answer, AT THIS POINT, makes any sense.
Glad you brought it up, I completely forgot about it, which had me very confused. She's now at Revelstone. So therefore he's at Mt. Thunder? Exactly HOW does she come to that conclusion? There's virtually no explanation, except for a number of unfounded assumptions:

- That since the Masters are here, Foul isn't.
- That Linden associates Foul with Mt. Thunder.
- That Jeremiah was actually telling her where to find him, instead of simply warning her by crafting two of the most recognizable places in the Land. Or he may have had some other purpose.

It's also too simple that Foul is at Mt. Thunder. Of course that's where we expect him to be... therefore he probably isn't there.
Spoiler
And as you mentioned, the last page appears to make her, and these assumptions, completely wrong.
Before Anele is possessed, he cries, "Anele is betrayed. You have given him to them." With "them" being delightfully ambiguous. He has never claimed that "they" are the Masters, has he?
Are the masters the only ones who dwell there?
Good question indeed.

Earlier in the book, didn't Linden figure out that "it" meant a caesure and "they" meant the Masters? Of course, she could be wrong (again).
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Relayer wrote:
Wayfriend wrote:And, given the clues, we know the answer: he must be in Mount Thunder!
Glad you brought it up, I completely forgot about it, which had me very confused. She's now at Revelstone. So therefore he's at Mt. Thunder? Exactly HOW does she come to that conclusion? There's virtually no explanation
Actually, I think the text does explain her reasoning.

First, she concludes that Jeremiah had tried to "prepare her" by showing her Revelstone and Mt Thunder. She seems to jump to the conclusion that he was telling her where she would have to go.

Then she thinks, "she now knew where to find him", but then "but first she needed to reenter Revelstone". So she knows where he is, but it is not in Revelstone.

So the only other place that Jeremiah communicated was Mt Thunder. Linden felt she needed to go there. And she knew she would find Jeremiah.

If it's NOT Mt Thunder, then what is the point of all that revelation?
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Post by Relayer »

Wayfriend wrote:First, she concludes that Jeremiah had tried to "prepare her" by showing her Revelstone and Mt Thunder. She seems to jump to the conclusion that he was telling her where she would have to go.
But that's exactly my point. She JUMPS to a conclusion, without any evidence or reasons that I can see. They appear to just come out of the blue. It may just be another of those SRD assumptions where it makes sense to him so he doesn't think he needs to explain... or maybe she just became a Seer :-)

Jeremiah could have been preparing her for any number of things, besides the conclusion she makes. He could've just been saying "hey, you're going back to the Land." There was nothing about the two constructs that implied an order to them, or that she needed to go there. It could have just as easily been "warning -- don't go to either of these places"... yet because she's now there, she assumes she had to go to Revelstone first.

In other threads we've discussed if Linden is making bad choices and wrong assumptions about people and events. She may be right about where he is, but I see no reason to think so.
Wayfriend wrote:If it's NOT Mt Thunder, then what is the point of all that revelation?
Misdirection. This IS Donaldson we're talking about :)
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Post by kastenessen »

Wayfriend wrote:
Wayfriend wrote:Once again, the Demondim seem unaccountably impotent.

This is sort of like Monty Python here. The Demondim keep charging towards them ... and never quite getting there. Yeah, they run away on their horses from time to time, but they standing there for a lot of time, too. Just how far away are the Demondim? Do they run slowly or something?
Yes, it's like the narrative's timeline gets drawn out too much and slightly distorts it's content, and at times I really had some problems with sorting things out while working with the text. What I should use and what I shouldn't...For instance: Linden make's a lot of observations of Mahrtiir and Bhapa and their Rhanyhyn, where they are, how they look what they eat, yes Amanhibavam to heal themselves and so on, back and forth on the horses...I can't really tell, either it intensifies the situation or it slows down the narrative too much, perhaps it depends on how carefully you read? But I totally agree, the Demondim seem pretty slow, almost as if the danger is elsewhere...

Wayfriend wrote:
There is one amazing passage in here which I do not recall anyone giving any attention. I have highlighted the critical line.
Looking at the Keep now, however, another realization struck Linden like a blow to the heart; another flash of anger and fear.

Her son had tried to warn her.

That also should have been impossible. In his condition, it must have been. Yet Jeremiah, who knew nothing of this place, and had never responded to her love, Jeremiah had used Legos to build an image of Revelstone in her living room only a few hours before Roger Covenant had kidnapped him.

Never having seen them before, he had devised motley models of both Revelstone and Mount Thunder; messages in red and blue and yellow bricks. Using the only language available to him, he had tried to prepare her for his plight-and hers. But she had failed to understand him.

In spite of her chagrin, however, she now knew where to find to him.

But first she needed to reenter Revelstone. That message had become clear to her as well. Why else had Jeremiah included it in his construct?
Linden knows how to find Jeremiah!

And, given the clues, we know the answer: he must be in Mount Thunder!

No other answer, AT THIS POINT, makes any sense.
Spoiler
Of course, the last page of Runes throws all of this completely out the window. Or, he asked with a conspiratorial wink, does it? Why does Donaldson say this line here if it does not have any meaning?!?!
Hmm, sometimes Donaldson make his characters do things that in the end turn out to be irrational, that they did draw wrong conclusions or did the wrong thing and actually never again gave it a second thought; with this I mean that SRD never returns to this moment again, that it does not effect his story anymore. It happens very seldom in his works but it happens, it gives drama to the moment but is just...Not many writers let their characters do that, it makes the characters much more human and actually, I have never encountered this anywhere else...still, it takes long to understand her statement when put in perspective... (i.e. The Spoiler.)

Relayer wrote:
Misdirection. This IS Donaldson we're talking about
You mean like, we are to believe that he is in MT but Linden knows now that he is someplace else, a thought that we are not taking part of... Yes, could be, could be, a mean trick of Mr Donaldson isn't it?

k
Expansion is meaningless without restriction; restriction is useless without expansion. But put them together and you get, well, a balloon.-SRD
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Post by tonyz »

I think it's another example of Linden jumping to conclusions, really. She does a lot of that in this book.
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Post by Relayer »

kastenessen wrote:Relayer wrote:
Misdirection. This IS Donaldson we're talking about
You mean like, we are to believe that he is in MT but Linden knows now that he is someplace else, a thought that we are not taking part of... Yes, could be, could be, a mean trick of Mr Donaldson isn't it?
That could be the case too, but I meant Linden believes he is in MT, and hence WE are to believe it too. But in truth he's somewhere else. The misdirection is to get Linden and us to think or expect certain things to happen, or certain characters/groups to act a certain way, but then the story takes a turn in some other direction. Like in a good mystery, things aren't what they seem to be. Think Gap Series :)
Spoiler
Of course we're about to find out that she is wrong, he ISN'T at Mt. Thunder. Unless this isn't Jeremiah, but that's a subject for another thread.
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Post by Tulizar »

Wayfriend wrote:
dlbpharmd wrote:
Before Anele is possessed, he cries, "Anele is betrayed. You have given him to them." With "them" being delightfully ambiguous. He has never claimed that "they" are the Masters, has he?
But isn't Anele looking to Revelstone as he says this?
Indeed.

Are the masters the only ones who dwell there?

I assumed Anele was referring to the Masters, but is it possible Anele is upset because of what the stone walls of Revelstone might say to him? Are "They" the ancient memories that live in the rock? Maybe he fears being confined within the rock. When the rock speaks through him, Anele is sane and more in tune with reality and earlier in the book he seemed to run from this.






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Post by Relayer »

Tulizar wrote:I assumed Anele was referring to the Masters, but is it possible Anele is upset because of what the stone walls of Revelstone might say to him? Are "They" the ancient memories that live in the rock? Maybe he fears being confined within the rock. When the rock speaks through him, Anele is sane and more in tune with reality and earlier in the book he seemed to run from this.
But "Anele has no friend but stone."
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Post by Zarathustra »

Ah, at last, I’m caught up.

Kast, good job. I like your quotes, especially this one:
Wild magic was in some sense as disruptive as the caesure, untrammeled by restriction. For that reason, it had the power to violate the strictures of time. For the same reason, however, white gold formed the keystone of the Arch Of Time. Its unfettered passion anchored the paradox which made finite existence possible within the infinite universe.
Similarly the hot blaze of Linden’s heart anchored her within herself, enabled her to continue to be who she was when every mote and particle of herspecific being had been torn asunder.
That’s the first time we’ve heard that. Made finite existence possible within the infinite universe. How again? With unfettered passion anchoring the paradox of the finite/infinite. Whatever the hell that means. How does passion anchor any paradox? Sure’s there’s the paradox of passion and restraint, but what does that have to do with time?

Linden’s heart (passion) anchored her within herself in a similar way, enabled her identity to be retained despite her “being” being torn asunder. Huh. Well, that certainly sounds paradoxical. And I can understand how passion can help retain identity—what we care about is the foundation of who we are, defining us uniquely.
Relayer wrote:And last, up till now I was really starting to like Liand. But the "Linden!" ... "Linden, have you beheld?" is really annoying. If you have something to say at a time like this, don't be oblique! Major kudos to Linden for just ignoring him.
I agree completely. This trend started when Linden back came from the horserite too stunned, weary, and cold to speak. Liand kept repeating her name over and over because he didn’t know any other way to help. And it seems like he has never stopped. In fact, the text says, “. . . Liand shouted her name as if he had never stoped calling for her.” Yeah, no sh*t. This is all he does.

What’s the "Lost Deep?" “Nacre power spat and frothed, pale as air and ruinous as magma, shedding blackness like glimpses into the heart of the Lost Deep.” Just a metaphor? Why is it capitalized? A “real” place within Donaldson's cosmology? How was it lost?

Wayfriend, good point about Stave’s part in the horserite explaining the Ranyhyn following his lead. That didn’t seem right to me until you pointed that out.

Okay, so Anele gets possessed by a fire being when he touches ground. Does this remind anyone else of the fire monsters in Linden’s vision when she’s transported to the Land? Or Fire-Lions? Anele has the ability to “channel” rock’s thoughts and memories when he touches it. What if he’s not being possessed, but merely channeling a distress beneath the earth? This “possession” doesn’t seem to be a particular spirit. It never says anything. It’s just hot. It could be the suffering of the earth itself, a perversion of the Fire-Lions, of Earthpower.

Relayer and Wayfriend are right to suspect that the Demondim don’t really want to kill Linden and Co. The lack of carnage is intensional on the part of the Demondim. I think they could have mowed them all down if they wanted to do so. And Donaldson is clearly aware of this because he goes out of his way to say: “They let the opportunity for carnage escape them.” The opportunity didn’t escape them. They let it escape them.
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Post by wayfriend »

Malik23 wrote:That’s the first time we’ve heard that. Made finite existence possible within the infinite universe. How again? With unfettered passion anchoring the paradox of the finite/infinite. Whatever the hell that means. How does passion anchor any paradox?
Wild magic is unfettered passion; wild magic is also the anchor of the Arch of Time. I don't think that the author is trying to convey that it is the anchor because it is passion, or that the one somehow enables the other.
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