Menolly wrote:Guns, I can't argue with a word you said. I'm just tired of "the hometown boy who made it big" idolization of Petty here in Gator Town.
I don't know who you hung around with, but most of the people in circles I frequented absolutely hated Petty. Could be bothered to give one bit back to the Town that made him Big? When was the last time he did a Concert in Gainesville? The Swamp not a big enough venue for him? 'cause it'd be bloody packed.
September 21, 2006. Along with Stevie Nicks. In the O'Connell Center.
As far as grunge goes, yeah Alice in Chains is the only true contender (though I've pretty much written off Facelift). The vast bulk of Pearl Jam is destined for obscurity, with the exception of Vs and maybe Ten (for better or worse, I'll probably still be hearing Jeremy on the radio the day I die). STP and Soundgarden, forget it. Black Hole Sun will show up on All Your Favorite Hits of the 90s when we're all in retirement homes, but that's about it. Nirvana's about the same as Pearl Jam, in that all of their radio songs will be popular forever (like the Beatles), but few will bother with the albums. I'd say the Toadies first album, Rubberneck, will stand up well. But they've never been a very popular band. I think Mad Season and Temple of the Dog will both hold up, but the former leans on Staley and the latter on star power. Sublime (not grunge, but deserves mention) should do well, but that may just be my own personal bias.
My list of ones that haven't aged well - Megadeth, Biohazard, Suicidal Tendancies, Godsmack, and Korn.
"It is not the literal past that rules us, save, possibly, in a biological sense. It is images of the past. Each new historical era mirrors itself in the picture and active mythology of its past or of a past borrowed from other cultures. It tests its sense of identity, of regress or new achievement against that past.”
-George Steiner
I could come up with a long arguement why I disagree with you on Soundgarden with such songs as Outshined, Blow Up the Outside World, Rusty Cage, about 5 other damm good songs on Superunknown, some great long guitar riffs and some really good obscure songs. Will have to do some further research. I do, however, agree with everything else you two have said...
I like a few Godsmack songs, but to be fair, they all sound alike.
AiC was the only grunge band that was worth a damn in my humble estimation.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Nirvana was all hype, as were many of the grunge bands. MTV and Rolling Stone were nothing bu cheerleaders driving a change in the industry (much like the press learned they could affect politics with Watergate). Nirvana achieved legendary status based on the hype, not on the music. The other grunge bands rode their coattails.
Consider this.
Grunge hit 15 years ago.
20 years ago, in the height of the hair metal and euro-pop scene, it was still very common to hear 15-year old music on AOR radio. The Eagles, the Stones, Zeppelin, Rod Stewart, and Peter Frampton were still staples. Not so now with grunge at least around here. Sure, you'll still hear Smells Like Teen Spirit, Would?, or Jeremy every once in a while, but they're hardly ubiquitous. Why?
In my humble opinion (and in shocking irony), it's because the grunge bands weren't about the music as much as they were about the attitude and the look, and the bare-bones production of the music. There was no grunge musicians that were virtuosos. There's no grunge John Bonham, or Geezer Butler, or Rod Stewart, or Jimmy Page. Sure, the media tried to elevate Cobain to Dylan or Morrison status, but he simply wasn't. For all the talk about how banal '80s butt-rock was, I hear Poison, Ratt, and Def Leppard on the radio far more often than I hear AiC, Pearl Jam, or Soundgarden.
The proof is in the pudding. When was the last time you heard Screaming Trees on the radio?
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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I hear grunge bands on the radio way more than I hear any hair metal band. Might depend on what stations we're listening to. I have to disagree with you about the merits of grunge. Personally I think that Pearl Jam is awful and that AIC were very good. Kim Thayil (think that's his name) of Soundgarden, however, is a virtuoso. Cobain had a true musical vision, whether you liked that vision or not. That's what made him great.
edit: and if anything, it was the hair metal bands that were about the image.
Again, radio stations in different areas play different stuff.
Hair metal bands were certainly about image, but there were a ton of great singers and great musicians. Not so with grunge.
And the unshaven, scruffy-haired, flannel look was a badge, just like the spandex, eyeliner, and Aquanet-hair was.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
Cail wrote:The proof is in the pudding. When was the last time you heard Screaming Trees on the radio?
Funny you should say that -- Nearly Lost You was on the radio a couple of days ago, and I remember thinking, "Oh man, I completely forgot about these guys."
“...The conversations had a nightmare flatness, talking dice spilled in the tube metal chairs, human aggregates disintegrating in cosmic inanity, random events in a dying universe where everything is exactly what it appears to be and no other relation than juxtaposition is possible.”
“There are two kinds of sufferers in this world: those who suffer from a lack of life, and those who suffer from an overabundance.”
My take on grunge is that it is what it is - depressing, down, emotionally heavy rock.
In other words, to an extent it is fairly one-dimensional. Where's the uplifting, happy, jokey Nirvana song? Where are the riotous, "up" party anthems? Basically, there arent any.
Pearl Jam came close with "Given to Fly" on Yield, but even that song begins with the lyrics
"He could've tuned in, tuned in
But he tuned out
A bad time, nothing could save him"
... and its a song of affirmation, not really a "lets party" song.
So although I love Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains etc, theyre just damn depressing to listen to.
Cail - Virtuosos? I think Cobain had some genius in him, Eddie Vedder's gotta go close just for "black" from Ten, and Jerry Cantrell ... "Dirt" certainly does it for me in the guitars/riffs department.
It's funny that Cantrell was mentioned. He's the only musician from the grunge era that I think comes close. But there really isn't an Eddie Van Halen, Jimmy Page, George Lynch, and so on.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
It surprises me that you'd say that. I can't think of anything that Soundgarden did that would make you think Thayil is that good. I found their music bland and uninspired.
And I'm not saying that to be snarky. I seriously don't get what people liked about them. 'Outshined' wasn't a bad song ('cause it sounds like a Dio song), but 'Black Hole Sun' just flat sucked.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
You're crazy, you probably don't like Bush either if you don't care that much for STP or Godsmack--now I have to go listen to a bunch of alt rock to calm down
...yep, I may always be a fan.
And Cail, Jerry Cantrell is very good as well, but I would venture that Kim Thayil is a more talented musician.