Deathly Hallows Discussion: Spoilers!!!
Moderator: Menolly
From Balon's Progressive reading thread
On another issue, I'm wondering what exactally Riddle was made up of? Because at the end when Dumbledore is talking to Harry, he says that his sources place LV in the Albanian forests. So I assume that he didn't just teleport or something. Which makes me think that the Riddle apperation wasn't really a "person" per se. More like a physical manifestation of the journal.
On another issue, I'm wondering what exactally Riddle was made up of? Because at the end when Dumbledore is talking to Harry, he says that his sources place LV in the Albanian forests. So I assume that he didn't just teleport or something. Which makes me think that the Riddle apperation wasn't really a "person" per se. More like a physical manifestation of the journal.
I Never Fail To Be Astounded By The Things We Do For Promises - Ronnie James Dio (All The Fools Sailed Away)
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
Remember, everytime you drag someone through the mud, you're down in the mud with them
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain
Where are we going...and... WHY are we in a handbasket?
sindatur wrote:From Balon's Progressive reading thread
On another issue, I'm wondering what exactally Riddle was made up of? Because at the end when Dumbledore is talking to Harry, he says that his sources place LV in the Albanian forests. So I assume that he didn't just teleport or something. Which makes me think that the Riddle apperation wasn't really a "person" per se. More like a physical manifestation of the journal.
Spoiler
The Diary was a Horcrux, so it had a piece of Riddle's 16 year old soul. As it bonded with Ginny, it was taking over her body, and building one of it's own to become a second Riddle/Voldemort
-
Dragonlily
- Lord
- Posts: 4186
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2003 4:39 pm
- Location: Aparanta
- Contact:
I missed out on a lot of this thread when I forgot to click on a reminder email a week ago.
A couple of nights ago I was looking for something fun and undemanding to take to bed, and wound up with SORCERER'S STONE. I probably won't end up reading the whole series twice in a month, but it's there to go back to when I need it.
Referring to the movie, I sure hope DH is filmed better than ORDER OF THE PHOENIX was!!! They've signed the same director. *foreboding*
A couple of nights ago I was looking for something fun and undemanding to take to bed, and wound up with SORCERER'S STONE. I probably won't end up reading the whole series twice in a month, but it's there to go back to when I need it.
Referring to the movie, I sure hope DH is filmed better than ORDER OF THE PHOENIX was!!! They've signed the same director. *foreboding*
"The universe is made of stories, not atoms." -- Roger Penrose
-
Romeo
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 1194
- Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2002 1:22 pm
- Location: Ashland, PA, USA
- Contact:
Okay - just finished reading it for the second time (a lot slower this time). Noticed a couple other things that really tugged at the tear machine.
Jenn ... Seareach: Have you finished the book? If so, PM me. There's something else I want to discuss with you.
Spoiler
The biggest one was Snape telling Harry to "look ... at ... me." I don't think I understood it the first time through, although it does lay some pretty good hints later when Harry's going through Snape's throughts. I thought he was maybe trying to communicate something. Or maybe using some kind of magic or something. But this time it clicked ... Harry's eyes are exactly the same as his mother's. Snape wanted to take one last look at those eyes. He wanted to look into them when he died. Even typing it out makes me well up. 
That's almost as gut wrenching as any of the deaths.
That's almost as gut wrenching as any of the deaths.Spoiler
So while I'm on the subject, what does everyone else think about Snape? Was he a good guy or a bad guy? I don't think he ever became a true "good guy." He only did the good things he did because of Dumbledore's emotional blackmail - he felt responsible for Lily's death, and was trying to atone for that. But he was never big enough of a person to see past Harry's resemblance to his father. And I don't think his thoughts on mudbloods changed either. If he wasn't devestated by his role in Lily's death, I don't doubt one bit that he'd be Voldemort's true right-hand man. We always see good guys who do bad things - but it doesn't make them bad. Snape was a bad man who did a good thing - but I don't think that was enough to make him good.
And then the ravens pecked out his eyes.
I think Snape was an anti-hero to some extent. I don't think I could say Snape was under any sort of emotional blackmail as you put it. He is a man who brought himself up to be a certain way, and at one point in his life realized that it likely was not the way to go. However, I know myself that it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Yah, Snape was a pain in the a--, not entirely getting over his emotional bigotries however I think he was *trying* to stay the course, and it being so darn difficult since he was asked to play both sides and still be true to the good guys,,, which, in the end, I think he was.
He did the job he had to do because there was no one else who was in the position to do so. And Dumbledore felt he did what he had to do to ensure it happened.
The thing I liked is that all the characters by the end were nt cut-out good guys or bad guys and Snape and Dumbledore are excellent examples of this....
He did the job he had to do because there was no one else who was in the position to do so. And Dumbledore felt he did what he had to do to ensure it happened.
The thing I liked is that all the characters by the end were nt cut-out good guys or bad guys and Snape and Dumbledore are excellent examples of this....
~...with a floating smile and a light blue sponge...~
:moderator edit:
*not even two months is not "out too long". Sorry* ~m
Better late than never...?
Oh, and I'm not using spoiler tags. The book has been out too long. So there.
I really loved DH, and consider it proof that Rowling has consistently improved as a writer. She has an excellent story-telling sense and a straightforward style coupled with a very fine sense of characterization.
*not even two months is not "out too long". Sorry* ~m
Better late than never...?
Oh, and I'm not using spoiler tags. The book has been out too long. So there.
I really loved DH, and consider it proof that Rowling has consistently improved as a writer. She has an excellent story-telling sense and a straightforward style coupled with a very fine sense of characterization.
Spoiler
For the record, I cried. Several times. I teared up a little at the death of Hedwig, and again and again as the story went on. When Hermione described what she did to her parents to protect them. At Ginny's birthday present to Harry. The visit to Godric's Hollow, most especially the house where Harry's parents died--all those scribblings. Back in POA Ron faced a boggart but this time, facing the Horcrux, he faced his deepest fears not just the relatively simple phobia about spiders. That touched me very much (and btw, should prove a splendid scene for the actors in the movie).
Luna's room. Oh, what a lovely girl she is. I am so very disappointed in her father, but on the other hand I can understand. Oh yes. Ron and the others talking about her in Azkaban was another choke-up moment for me. Malfoy Manor. *shudder* Luna again made a difference didn't she? And Ron--ever notice the one thing guaranteed to make him go ballistic is any threat to Hermione? Listening and being unable to do anything, surely another form of torture.
I was surprised about how strongly I reacted to Dobby's murder. Never was all that fond of him, but yeah, he deserved all the honor in the world. The headstone. There're a lot headstones in this book, did you notice?
Totally understand why the death count kept growing, with even major character deaths treated almost off-handedly. Such was part of the horror, which Harry had to end, no matter what the price. Tonks! Lupin! Colin! Even Lavender Brown!
And Severus Snape. My guesses about him were right, but in a way that was surprising. Never imagined that they knew each other before Hogwarts! "The Prince's Tale" was one of the saddest parts of the whole book. What a wasted life. A sad, bitter man. One starts wondering--if Snape had been just a little different, might he have taken Peter Pettigrew's place in the Marauders? I think had things gone differently, had Snape grown in another direction, he might have won his heart's desire. Guess we know what he sees in the Mirror of Erised, eh? Oh Severus--you were a hard and cruel man, but there was much that was noble in you as well. Would you had found it sooner! And isn't it strange that Harry Potter of all people should have named his son after you? The child with his mother's green eyes. Rest in peace. Maybe in another life you will find Lilly again, and this time win her. I hope so.
Ron and Hermione--when he talked about saving the House Elves, and she threw herself into his arms--well, that was the most unabashed fanboy squee moment in the whole book for me. At last! At long, frelling last! I read the first book aloud to my fiancee and one third of the way through I said "Ron and Hermione--those two are destined to get married." She just nodded. My guess is the whole audience will cheer for that scene in the movie (however it gets played out).
Some theories/explanations:
How did Harry survive? Because he and Voldemort were linked. I suspect if Nagini had already been killed at this point, both of them would have died. But his mother's blood provided Harry with an extra 'anchor' to life as another anchor--the Horcrux--was destroyed. But it only worked for Harry, because it was his mother's blood and his mother's protection.
What happened to Umbridge? Although it would have been fun to see her fate, the essence of it is pretty obvious. She was a Quisling. She was the equivalent of Marshall Petain in France during WW2. Under Shaklebolt's ministry, I had little doubt she was out of a job and into Azkaban.
Other thoughts (many of them confirmed by Rowling, btw): Teddy was raised by his grandmother, Andromeda. Harry did in fact become a very successful Auror (dark wizards still exist after all--they didn't begin or end with Voldemort). I've no idea where Ginny and Harry live, save that it is very nice and comfortable. Harry of course doesn't really need to work for a living since his Dad was from a wealthy family (this is canon). I was so afraid that Hermione was going to die--really, really afraid, not least because it seemed that Rowling had set up Luna and Ron to get together maybe if she did. But...whew. She lived. Honestly, I was rooting for Ginny and Neville to get together, with Harry and Luna wed. But I realized by HBP that was not to be. *sigh* Adored Dumbledore's backstory and the glimpse we got of the second most dangerous Dark Wizard of all time.
Luna's room. Oh, what a lovely girl she is. I am so very disappointed in her father, but on the other hand I can understand. Oh yes. Ron and the others talking about her in Azkaban was another choke-up moment for me. Malfoy Manor. *shudder* Luna again made a difference didn't she? And Ron--ever notice the one thing guaranteed to make him go ballistic is any threat to Hermione? Listening and being unable to do anything, surely another form of torture.
I was surprised about how strongly I reacted to Dobby's murder. Never was all that fond of him, but yeah, he deserved all the honor in the world. The headstone. There're a lot headstones in this book, did you notice?
Totally understand why the death count kept growing, with even major character deaths treated almost off-handedly. Such was part of the horror, which Harry had to end, no matter what the price. Tonks! Lupin! Colin! Even Lavender Brown!
And Severus Snape. My guesses about him were right, but in a way that was surprising. Never imagined that they knew each other before Hogwarts! "The Prince's Tale" was one of the saddest parts of the whole book. What a wasted life. A sad, bitter man. One starts wondering--if Snape had been just a little different, might he have taken Peter Pettigrew's place in the Marauders? I think had things gone differently, had Snape grown in another direction, he might have won his heart's desire. Guess we know what he sees in the Mirror of Erised, eh? Oh Severus--you were a hard and cruel man, but there was much that was noble in you as well. Would you had found it sooner! And isn't it strange that Harry Potter of all people should have named his son after you? The child with his mother's green eyes. Rest in peace. Maybe in another life you will find Lilly again, and this time win her. I hope so.
Ron and Hermione--when he talked about saving the House Elves, and she threw herself into his arms--well, that was the most unabashed fanboy squee moment in the whole book for me. At last! At long, frelling last! I read the first book aloud to my fiancee and one third of the way through I said "Ron and Hermione--those two are destined to get married." She just nodded. My guess is the whole audience will cheer for that scene in the movie (however it gets played out).
Some theories/explanations:
How did Harry survive? Because he and Voldemort were linked. I suspect if Nagini had already been killed at this point, both of them would have died. But his mother's blood provided Harry with an extra 'anchor' to life as another anchor--the Horcrux--was destroyed. But it only worked for Harry, because it was his mother's blood and his mother's protection.
What happened to Umbridge? Although it would have been fun to see her fate, the essence of it is pretty obvious. She was a Quisling. She was the equivalent of Marshall Petain in France during WW2. Under Shaklebolt's ministry, I had little doubt she was out of a job and into Azkaban.
Other thoughts (many of them confirmed by Rowling, btw): Teddy was raised by his grandmother, Andromeda. Harry did in fact become a very successful Auror (dark wizards still exist after all--they didn't begin or end with Voldemort). I've no idea where Ginny and Harry live, save that it is very nice and comfortable. Harry of course doesn't really need to work for a living since his Dad was from a wealthy family (this is canon). I was so afraid that Hermione was going to die--really, really afraid, not least because it seemed that Rowling had set up Luna and Ron to get together maybe if she did. But...whew. She lived. Honestly, I was rooting for Ginny and Neville to get together, with Harry and Luna wed. But I realized by HBP that was not to be. *sigh* Adored Dumbledore's backstory and the glimpse we got of the second most dangerous Dark Wizard of all time.
"O let my name be in the Book of Love!
It be there, I care not of the other great book Above.
Strike it out! Or, write it in anew. But
Let my name be in the Book of Love!" --Omar Khayam
It be there, I care not of the other great book Above.
Strike it out! Or, write it in anew. But
Let my name be in the Book of Love!" --Omar Khayam
-
Menolly
- A Lowly Harper
- Posts: 24077
- Joined: Thu May 19, 2005 12:29 am
- Location: Harper Hall, Fort Hold, Northern Continent, Pern...
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 7 times
- Contact:
Zahir...
I am glad to see you still posting in the forum. I apologize for the heavy moderator hand above. I honestly believe some people may not read this book until they receive it as a Chr-stmas gift. So...at the risk of being overly cautious, I think spoiler tags for DH should remain up until New Year's.
...and that's the one in January, not the one in two weeks...
Anyway, welcome to the JKR forum! Your insights are terrific. Will you be joining us in the series dissection?
I am glad to see you still posting in the forum. I apologize for the heavy moderator hand above. I honestly believe some people may not read this book until they receive it as a Chr-stmas gift. So...at the risk of being overly cautious, I think spoiler tags for DH should remain up until New Year's.
...and that's the one in January, not the one in two weeks...
Anyway, welcome to the JKR forum! Your insights are terrific. Will you be joining us in the series dissection?
