Nick

Post by **amanibhavam** » Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:27 pm

I am still trying to figure out whether he was just a wholly unscrupulous insisdiouss bastard or not. I mean, he _was_ an insidious bastard, but there were moments when I felt sorry for him - like when he found out that Morn was cheating on him all the time.
He never got a chance to prove or to _try_ proving that with Morn it could have been different. True, on the surface he wanted for just as he wamted his other women; but maybe not.
I seems that in this book everybody just goes around punishing people for things that had been done by another person. Nick punishes everyone for those scars he had been given by a woman; Angus punishes the world because of his Mother; Morn punishing Nick because of Angus.
Freud would have a fine time reading this book.

Post by **aTOMiC** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:46 am

The scenario Donaldson presents in the Gap series is an interesting examination of the fundamental nature of human beings and an exercise in the process of creating a dependable hero from a despicable character. With Thomas Covenant the question was can you accept an irritable, sarcastic rapist as a legitimate hero figure. We managed to forgive the Covenant character for his flaws and embraced him for who he would ultimately become. The same seems true with Nick, Angus and Morn. Nick on the surface is a slick, swashbuckling pirate who appears handsome and confident. In every way a typical hero figure. We discover later that he has more in common with the outwardly grotesque and morally contemptible Angus than we would have guessed. Even Morn was shown to be capable of darker deeds than it appeared she would have been capable of. The direct question involves how these people reacted and coped with the terrible things that seemed to shape their lives. Angus’ transformation from a sickening, homicidal coward to a super powered problem solver is in my opinion the most dramatic change. I found that I truly wanted Nick to be redeemed through a change in his character at some point in the story but he was ruled by his past experiences and became a more immediate villain to the story then even the alien threat.

Post by **dANdeLION** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:02 am

"I felt sorry for him - like when he found out that Morn was cheating on him all the time. He never got a chance to prove or to _try_ proving that with Morn it could have been different......Morn punishing Nick because of Angus"

I really don't think that Morn and Nick ever had anything close to a real relationship, and certainly not one based on love or trust or anything normal. In other words, there was nothing there for Morn to betray. Morn was in survival mode for most of the Gap series, and I can understand her motives for escaping Angus. But Nick was even a worse person than Angus, and I believe Nick proved that every chance he could. Nick was abusive, prideful, arrogant, spiteful and many other terrible things. I was just about to mention him on the "Most evil fictional character" thread; that's how bad I think he was. Angus and Morn managed to survive, learn and perhaps even grow a little from the terrible circumstances of their lives. Nick's hate and pride never let him do that, and in the end it killed him.

Post by **aTOMiC** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 6:34 am

dAN, I'm not clear on one of your points. Are you saying Nick was a bad guy?

Of course you are dead on. I couldn't agree more.

Post by **danlo** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 12:33 pm

Wow Tampa Bay fans and a new guy named dAN!! I'm SO happy!

Nick turned out to be a sorry-ass monster...but for some weird reason I felt sorrier for him than Angus...

Fasner's the one I really couldn't stand, Norman in Psycho treated his mother better!

What a serious sicko!!!!

Post by **Nav** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 3:50 am

I think Nick summed up his relationship with Morn when he said (or rather, thought) that he didn't really like women, and that he only entertained them for the sake of his reputation. Morn was only really a trophy to him, something he could hold over Angus and that people would remember for decades. He was shattered when he found out that Morn was using him, but I suspect he was more worried about his precious reputation than broken-hearted.

Post by **Skyweir** » Wed Sep 17, 2003 4:14 am

I agree .. though there were times when I too felt sorry for Nick tho' .. because even though he was indeed a despicable and abusive character he did believe that Morn was a willing participant. As opposed to Angus who was fully cognizant of this lack and couldnt have cared less.

I think Nick also wouldnt have cared less .. as you say Navarino .. Morn was nothing much more than a trophy to him.

I think clearfrontier you summarised it well ..

clearfrontier wrote:Even Morn was shown to be capable of darker deeds than it appeared she would have been capable of

The Gap is yet another exploration of human nature. I too wished Nick would have redeemed himself .. but as you say he was slave to his bitterness, hate and pride.

Post by **danlo** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:02 am

to quote clearfontier again: "Even Morn was shown to be capable of darker deeds than it appeared she would have been capable of"

I think any1 subjected 2 Angus' treatment in TRS would b capable of very dark deeds and revenges...

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 6:27 pm

that is an excellent point!!

That is very important in understanding the dynamics of her relationship with Nick .. and it is so true Morn suffered under Angus' control .. in reality being nothing more than a slave to his depraved desires ..

mmm .. really well spotted .. I neglected that whole majorly significant issue

Post by **Landwaster** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:07 pm

Yep ... not extraordinary people but ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances.

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 7:49 pm

oooh cool .. i like that .. thats good!

Post by **Landwaster** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:01 pm

Heh ... its just something someone said about heroes of war, once. In real life, that is. I plagiarised it

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 8:29 pm

LOL

well you plagerised it well .. LOL

Post by **Landwaster** » Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:13 pm

yeah well i was just an ordinary person in an extraordinary circumstance

Post by **Nav** » Mon Sep 22, 2003 2:37 am

Landwaster wrote:
Heh ... its just something someone said about heroes of war, once. In real life, that is. I plagiarised it

Reminds me of Churchill's soundbyte after the Battle of Britain:
"Never before have so few done so much for so many."

Britain's most prolific fighter pilot in WWII was from my home town. A local historian said "I think it's fair to say that Jonnie Johnson did a bit more for the many that the rest of the few." Confusing stuff.

Post by **Skyweir** » Thu Sep 25, 2003 7:10 am

mmm ..

true

Post by **Loredoctor** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 11:05 am

I think the issue here is that the gap series is all about redemption. A year ago i stated that I thought Angus was worse than Nick and defended him. Now I've changed that opinion; Angus tried to redeem himself which made him a more trustworthy person. Nick, never tried to - he believed in his own lie so much that he was incapable of seeking redemption. That makes him worse because we cannot trust someone who is incapable of seeing fault in their actions. I like Nick as a character, but in the end he was damned.

Ahhh, it's good to be back to this forum; I've been gone so long.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Nick

Nick