Pantheon: The Third Age - Rules and Comments Thread

[Arcadia]

FYI, I decided to join the Sunset Court.

[Zephyr]

As I said, you can still do things outside your domains, it's just much more difficult. So, to take Maeror's example, you could still raise a spire out of the earth - it would just be much more expensive in terms of DRP, but you can do it (unless the goddess of Earth doesn't give you permission).

Also, more specific domains are more limited in scope, but more powerful in function. A god of forests doesn't have control over, say, plains or over the underwater fauna (competences of the god of Nature and possibly the god of the Sea), but when dealing with forests, the god would be able to do more with the same expenditure of DRP than the god of nature. A god of forests could control forests - animate them, grow them, wither them, give birth to special kinds of trees, and the like (asking permission from other deities if appropriate, in the latter case). In the case of the god of forests, you might vaguely imagine the kind of power of the Ents of Lord of the Rings, only more so.

I'm not sure if you're addressing my concern.

Some domains are Greater domains, and some Lesser. For example, Mutation and Forests. The God of Mutation could decide to infuse a forest with 5 DRP's, and do to it what was done to southern Immerill. The mutated followers would certainly question their faith in their god. "Why the heck am I following this weakling God of Forests who can't protect us from Malice?" Yes, I could put up shields, or any number of other ideas.

But the point is that the God of Forests cannot do anything similar against Mutation. Mutation is not a physical thing that can be acted upon. Mutation (and Love, Fear, Pleasure, etc etc) can change the very nature of Forests (and Seas, Air, Earth, etc etc), but there's no possibility of Forests doing anything to Mutation. The Greater domains have no need to fear the Lesser domains, and need not waste DRP's putting up shields against them.

Does that explain my thinking? It's certainly better to have a Greater domain. If this was not the situation, Zephyr would inherit Bhakti's domain of Forests instead of Love. But even though Mutation is not necessarily evil (Forests vs Mutation is just the example that's been on my mind for more than a year now. ), Forests is a Lesser domain, and cannot operate in as many kinds of ways as a Greater domain.

Unless you're saying that, if there is a God of Forests, Mutation couldn't throw 5 DRP's of mutation at a forest without permission. Love could not make Love Maples there without permission. Fear could not infuse it with fear so that even the God of Forest's followers would no longer enter. If that's what you're saying, Zephyr is the God of Forests instead of Love.

[Xar]

As I said, you can still do things outside your domains, it's just much more difficult. So, to take Maeror's example, you could still raise a spire out of the earth - it would just be much more expensive in terms of DRP, but you can do it (unless the goddess of Earth doesn't give you permission).

Also, more specific domains are more limited in scope, but more powerful in function. A god of forests doesn't have control over, say, plains or over the underwater fauna (competences of the god of Nature and possibly the god of the Sea), but when dealing with forests, the god would be able to do more with the same expenditure of DRP than the god of nature. A god of forests could control forests - animate them, grow them, wither them, give birth to special kinds of trees, and the like (asking permission from other deities if appropriate, in the latter case). In the case of the god of forests, you might vaguely imagine the kind of power of the Ents of Lord of the Rings, only more so.

I'm not sure if you're addressing my concern.

Some domains are Greater domains, and some Lesser. For example, Mutation and Forests. The God of Mutation could decide to infuse a forest with 5 DRP's, and do to it what was done to southern Immerill. The mutated followers would certainly question their faith in their god. "Why the heck am I following this weakling God of Forests who can't protect us from Malice?" Yes, I could put up shields, or any number of other ideas.

But the point is that the God of Forests cannot do anything similar against Mutation. Mutation is not a physical thing that can be acted upon. Mutation (and Love, Fear, Pleasure, etc etc) can change the very nature of Forests (and Seas, Air, Earth, etc etc), but there's no possibility of Forests doing anything to Mutation. The Greater domains have no need to fear the Lesser domains, and need not waste DRP's putting up shields against them.

Does that explain my thinking? It's certainly better to have a Greater domain. If this was not the situation, Zephyr would inherit Bhakti's domain of Forests instead of Love. But even though Mutation is not necessarily evil (Forests vs Mutation is just the example that's been on my mind for more than a year now. ), Forests is a Lesser domain, and cannot operate in as many kinds of ways as a Greater domain.

Unless you're saying that, if there is a God of Forests, Mutation couldn't throw 5 DRP's of mutation at a forest without permission. Love could not make Love Maples there without permission. Fear could not infuse it with fear so that even the God of Forest's followers would no longer enter. If that's what you're saying, Zephyr is the God of Forests instead of Love.

Let's summarize it in a principle:

If there is a god of X, no deity can directly affect X (using divine power) without the permission of the god of X.

This of course means that the god of mutation could have its armies bring mutagens over your forests, but he couldn't morph them with divine power, UNLESS THERE WERE NO GOD OF FORESTS. Consider each god as a "Protector" and "guardian" of its domain(s). And a second principle:

If deity A's domain is included in deity B's domain (such as Metal and Earth, for example), deity A does not need to ask permission from deity B to act within its domain, and in fact it is more powerful within its domain than deity B would be influencing that part of its domain.

[I'm Murrin]

Unless you're saying that, if there is a God of Forests, Mutation couldn't throw 5 DRP's of mutation at a forest without permission. Love could not make Love Maples there without permission. Fear could not infuse it with fear so that even the God of Forest's followers would no longer enter. If that's what you're saying, Zephyr is the God of Forests instead of Love.

I get the impression that they could, but it would be more difficult than if there were no god of Forests.

Edit: but Xar's post suggests I'm wrong. Interesting. So if there is a god of Forests, no other god can affect forests directly without his permission? That seems alright, until you consider the more abstract domains: The same principle applied to Peace means that no god may bring a change to a state of Peace without his permission. A god cannot stop Crime among his followers without asking an Carraig. And so on.

[Zephyr]

Wow! That's great news, Xar!
kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=535394#535394

[I'm Murrin]

You're definately changing to Sunset? Aw.
I suppose signing up with Nature, Weather, and Life does work better for Forests.

Stats are now: Sunrise 3, Sunset 6.

[Xar]

Unless you're saying that, if there is a God of Forests, Mutation couldn't throw 5 DRP's of mutation at a forest without permission. Love could not make Love Maples there without permission. Fear could not infuse it with fear so that even the God of Forest's followers would no longer enter. If that's what you're saying, Zephyr is the God of Forests instead of Love.

I get the impression that they could, but it would be more difficult than if there were no god of Forests.

Edit: but Xar's post suggests I'm wrong. Interesting. So if there is a god of Forests, no other god can affect forests directly without his permission? That seems alright, until you consider the more abstract domains: The same principle applied to Peace means that no god may bring a change to a state of Peace without his permission. A god cannot stop Crime among his followers without asking an Carraig. And so on.

Well, keep in mind that I'm talking about direct divine intervention... A god who wanted to bring a change to your followers' state of peace could simply send an army and bring war to your doorstep. Since this would not be a direct change (i.e. the god didn't spend DRPs to purposely force your people's wills so as to war with each other), he/she wouldn't need to ask permission nor would he/she be prevented from sending the army in the first place.
By the same token, a god of Fire - for example - could not set a forest on fire using DRPs if there were a god of Forests (at least not without the latter's permission). He could not, let's say, look at a forest, say, "burn!" and have it burn. However, he could simply send in a follower with a torch and ask him to set the forest on fire, or he could cause a nearby volcano to erupt and pour lava into the forest, or something like that.

Since I foresee the question - volcanoes are things of both earth and fire. Yes, this means that both the god of Earth and the god of Fire could affect the volcano equally well. There are a few overlaps between almost all domains; however, a more focused domain always overcomes a more general one. A god of volcanoes would have a very narrow scope for his powers, but his existence would mean that neither the god of Earth nor the god of Fire could affect volcanoes without his permission.

[I'm Murrin]

Well, keep in mind that I'm talking about direct divine intervention... A god who wanted to bring a change to your followers' state of peace could simply send an army and bring war to your doorstep. Since this would not be a direct change (i.e. the god didn't spend DRPs to purposely force your people's wills so as to war with each other), he/she wouldn't need to ask permission nor would he/she be prevented from sending the army in the first place.

You refer to my own followers specifically--do you then speak only of forests that the god of Forests has specifically extended his protection over? Or do you say my followers only for the purpose of example (where in fact the same applies to all people in a state of peace)?

[Mistress Cathy]

Thanks, Xar.

This is making more sense.

[Xar]

Well, keep in mind that I'm talking about direct divine intervention... A god who wanted to bring a change to your followers' state of peace could simply send an army and bring war to your doorstep. Since this would not be a direct change (i.e. the god didn't spend DRPs to purposely force your people's wills so as to war with each other), he/she wouldn't need to ask permission nor would he/she be prevented from sending the army in the first place.

You refer to my own followers specifically--do you then speak only of forests that the god of Forests has specifically extended his protection over? Or do you say my followers only for the purpose of example (where in fact the same applies to all people in a state of peace)?

Your followers were only an example.

[O-gon-cho]

*trying to understand*

Except for needing the blessing of the deity of a domain to do something via divine intervention with DRP within that domain, this is sounding more and more similar to how I played all along, relying heavily upon domain usage as I didn't have much DRP to spend. Am I interpreting what you are telling us correctly?

[I'm Murrin]

An example of something I'm still not sure seems to work, exactly: Say you have both a god of Madness and a god of Sanity. Because of the restrictions you mention, the god of Madness could not by direct intervention make the sane mad, nor could the god of Sanity directly make the mad sane; in which case, there is not a lot they could do. Is there, in such cases, an exception made for directly opposed domains, where the two opposites do have influence?

[Xar]

An example of something I'm still not sure seems to work, exactly: Say you have both a god of Madness and a god of Sanity. Because of the restrictions you mention, the god of Madness could not by direct intervention make the sane mad, nor could the god of Sanity directly make the mad sane; in which case, there is not a lot they could do. Is there, in such cases, an exception made for directly opposed domains, where the two opposites do have influence?

Yes, in the case of opposing domains, you can influence an instance of the other deity's influence with yours. For example, if a water deity flooded your lands, your fire deity could summon divine fire to heat up the water and make it evaporate (probably cooking everyone in the area, but you can't have everything ).

[I'm Murrin]

Okey dokey.

[Zephyr]

Well, keep in mind that I'm talking about direct divine intervention... A god who wanted to bring a change to your followers' state of peace could simply send an army and bring war to your doorstep. Since this would not be a direct change (i.e. the god didn't spend DRPs to purposely force your people's wills so as to war with each other), he/she wouldn't need to ask permission nor would he/she be prevented from sending the army in the first place.

Yeah, this is fine. And it means the Greater and Lesser domains I brought up don't exist. Because I could just as easily make Trees grow through an enemy's cities. Or make certain Forest plants bloom in huge quantities so as to attract certain insects. Etc. All things seem equal.

Also, if I understand, the God of Sanity could increase the level of sanity in the mad, and the God of Madness could increase the level of madness in the sane. Of course, Xar would have to decide how someone with extreme amounts of both sanity and madness would behave. Heh. (This was the case in P2. Bhakti asked Nor Yekith if, since Love was so pitiful, he would like Bhakti to remove it from Nor Yekith's followers. In exchange, he would be happy to have Nor Yekith remove all Malice from Bhakti's followers. Bhakti was not able to alter the Malice in anybody's followers, and Nor Yekith was not able to alter the Love.)

[balon!]

As of right now I am the only deity with Air as a house. As I understand this there are good and bad things about it. When I gain in power, there will no one else to ride my coattails, and also a small gain. But also, there is no one for ME to ride on.

Is that correct? Anything else I missed?

[Zephyr]

What makes you think you're gonna gain in power?

[balon!]

What makes you think you're gonna gain in power?

Who's gonna stop me!?

[O-gon-cho]

As of right now I am the only deity with Air as a house.

There is the potentiality that may change...

...still thinking...

[Madadeva]

Brothers and sisters of Sunset Court. I propose we select the Master of our Court as follows:

Every Eiran year we vote for who will lead us the next year ; selecting from a slate of candidates who desire to lead.

Only the strongest amonst us may put forth their candidacy. If only one is highest in DRP, they are selected without vote if they agree to lead. If only one of the strongest offers to lead, they are selected without vote. If none of our strongest offer to lead, the process proceeds to the 'next' strongest.

As we start, all are equal so anyone may offer to lead.

What say you my brothers and sister? Do you agree? What changes to this process would you suggest?