Lord Foul.....as a goodie

[Michael Giantfriend]

I've been trying to think of the sort of situation that would turn Foul from the all-encompassing evil we see in the 1st & 2nd Chrons, into a potential saviour for the land, even if an unwilling saviour such as TC in the LFB and IEW.

Man, I can't think of anything! Foul is simply too twisted, too bitter, too thoroughly evil for me to even envisage the potential for good in him! Even if there was a way to bring down the Arch of Time that spared The Land, Foul wouldn't go for that, because he would want to destroy his "prison" for these many millennia. Even if it destroyed the entirety of creation, including Foul himself, he would go for it just so that the Land would be destroyed - the old "I don't care if I die as long as I take the rest of you with me!" scenario...

[Quaan]

if and when a third chronicles ever gets written, i think TC will be involved in some way. SDR made a comment in an interview that "now that the law of death has been broken, there is no real reason for TC to remain dead is there?".
that statement leads me to believe that SDR has given some thought to a third chronicles, its just a matter of when he feels the time is right to do them i think.

[aliantha]

Oh, yeah, definitely SRD has planned to write a 3d Chrons. He said somewhere that all the groundwork has been laid in the earlier books. (Kind of like George Lucas, I guess, who did Star Wars with the intention of doing 9 movies total.) The question is whether SRD will ever get back into the frame of mind that he deems necessary to write the 3d Chrons.

A thought about this idea of TC having to accept that LF is part of him: You know how, sometimes, you ignore and defer and otherwise refuse to acknowledge the existence of some icky fact, and in the process, your brain mutates the icky fact into this huge monster, out of all proportion to its real size? And once you face the icky fact and deal with it, it often turns out to be not nearly as bad as you thought it would be? I wonder whether this is where SRD is kind of going with acceptance, in the 3d Chrons (or would be going, if he ever wrote the darn thing). How did TC get rid of Foul the first time? By facing him and laughing at him. How did he get rid of him the second time? By facing him and giving the bad guy exactly what he wanted (not that Foul could do anything with it). So, hmm. How could he defeat Foul in the 3d Chrons? By facing him and...giving him a big hug? Well, anyway, it sounded good when I started, but kinda petered out....

[arwenavery]

but i dont really agree with lord foul as a goodie anymore, i though of a much more interestin plight of acceptance for teh third chroniclas!! what if teh land has to eventually accept that TC is not berek halfhand reborn , what if all his plans up to now have been part of something even bigger that foul ............naybe covenant wil eventually die ..properly and tehn everyone has to look at hishistory , what exactly HE has done!!!!

i dunno its one of those wild things that came to me in the train!!!

[Bannor]

Well, I don't think Lord Foul will be a good guy, and I think Covenant will be in the new chronicles. I do wonder who will be the "new" Lords of Revelstone. And I wonder who will wield the Staff of Law. Perhaps Linden (since she is the healer, maybe she will use it to heal the Land?).

[danlo]

Maybe all sorts of folks will come out of hiding in the 3rd Chrons (kinda of like how people eventually returned 2 The Land after the Ritual of Desecration). SRD must have some use 4 all the knowledge the Unferetted Ones have gleaned in their travels--perhaps they will eventually unite w/whatever Forrestals r left and create grand things in Throthguard like different learning centers and a beautiful Gilden grove. Possibly desendants of old Stonedowners and Ramen (w/the Ranyhyn of course!) will reappear from the Southron Range and the Southron Wastes. Maybe Starfare's Gem never made it 2 Home and the crew repopulates Coerci and comes 2 The Land's rescue. Or, they do reach Home and more ships r sent 2 aid The Land. Maybe the Elohim begin 2 mysteriously appear in The Land. Maybe even some Bhrathair find there way there.
I've got 2 think that TC might have some new powers we've never heard of and will pop in2 heavy-duty situations in weird and subtle ways. I'm sure Linden will have a major role and maybe a totally new person from our world will b summoned or find a way 2 get 2 The Land. Maybe even, cough, choke, Joan will have some role. I'd also like 2 think that the poor-offshoot creations of Lord Foul, like the Waynhim and the jheherrin have their own plans 4 getting even!

[arwenavery]

there`ll be no lords in revelstone, sunder and hollian are something new alltogether , i think SRD will lose a lot of cred. if he begins the third chrons with , "and after millenia the land has returned to its old self and lord mhorlena is high lord"
id really like to see the land in all its natural beauty , as much as anyone does!!! BUT i dont want SRD to write a 3 chrons if it ends with and they all lived happily ever after , or worse still , it ends with

and then a man named jesus took the land and named it jerusalem!!!!

its like putting jam on rwanda!!!

[Tohrm]

In some ways, I think that TC will be involved in a greater way than he has been to date. But I can only imagine one way that Foul would turn out to be a goodie. And that is if he is to be finally killed. Not just wounded, but to actually kill him. And I think that might be what SRD is going to try to get through to Foul this time around.
There is nobody around that would willingly choose to give up their lives just for the sake of destruction. At least no sane person. No, I do not consider those idiots from 9/11 or any of the other suicide bombers as sane.
But here is what I have a sneaking hunch that SRD is going to pull. TC with his death has strengthened the AOT. So now, Foul will never be able to break out without killing himself at the same time. Now the only problem is how is everybody going to get this through Fouls' thick skull?

[Skyweir]

I can see only one problem with that plan .. Foul's immortality!

He cannot die .. he can only be subdued .. Maybe he can have a change of heart .. but how can he be killed? .. or lose his life? He cannot give up his life? His immortality is his curse .. he must endure the life time of the earth .. till the AoT is brought down .. before he can escape his prison but not his life.

[danlo]

Maybe the Worm (Wurm?) @ the end of the World will momentarily wake up and swallow the bastard! Might b a pretty BAD case of indigestion, but hey, worth a shot!!!

[Tohrm]

To us, LF is immortal. But to another 'creator'? Can one immortal being 'kill' another? After all, both the creator an lf have been around for scores of millenia. Or is their immortality based on the thought that they have extreeeeemely long lifespans and the fact that they are immune to anything that we mere mortals could dish out to them?

[amanibhavam]

this is a good question. what exactly makes a god a god? immortality? not necessarily, Tolkien's elves are immortal (though they can be killed), but certainly not gods
or the ability to create from nothing?

imho the Chronicles open a very interesting possibility... here the beings living as "normal" inhabitants of a world (our world) can pose as gods/creators in another world (think of the beggar in the ochre robe)

funny. maybe the Creator is a person who has read Tolkien? mybe that's why he created a world that is so similar to Tolkien's world

[duchess of malfi]

another great thread that has sunk to page 11...

[Fangthane the Render]

Not a goodie at all my slimy minions! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!

[Icarus]

Just perusing some old threads.

The title of this thread reminded me of an old quote from the Dune Chronicles (sorry to cross-reference but it seems so apt).

"A creature who has spent his life creating one particular representation of his selfdom will die rather than become the antithesis of that representation."

But I guess that doesn't say anything about paradox. You are the White Gold. But I suppose that a paradoxical nature is as much a representation of selfdom as any other -- Perhaps TC could never move completely to either end of the spectrum -- good/evil. Perhaps he will always be a believing unbeliever and anything else would shatter his existence.

[Turiya]

Hmm. . .the only way I see this happening is if someone on the good side (Thomas Covenant, for example) would offer him freedom from the Arch of Time via white gold (if that's even possilbe)--which would in essence destroy the Land anyway (Hm, I wonder what destroying the Creator would do?)

Besides,

Spoiler

he's already got Joan's white gold and Roger's help, and he's still somehow stuck.

Lord Foul is part of Thomas Covenant, I grant you, but I doubt that TC will ever become so corrupted as to be like the Despiser. It follows that the Despiser

Spoiler

though seeming to help Linden in a sort of twisted way

can't become all that good, either.