How did anyone know about white gold before TC Showed up?

[iQuestor]

I just read a GI Question where SRD was asked whether Berek had White Gold. SRD replies, nope he didn't. OK, fine. Actually, no one had it, until Covenant showed up.

Which led me to think: How did anyone even know white gold can exist and that it would be powerful once it did? How did the legend of white gold, and the white wild magic that it unleashes even come into being? Is this ever explained anywhere?? Who prophesied it?

perhaps the legend of white gold was a machination of Theomach?

any comments?

[matrixman]

But how can one discuss AATE without bringing up what has occurred in FR? IMO, I think this question should be asked in the FR forum...

[iQuestor]

MM, good point. I will move it thusly.

[[Syl]]

Moved

[native]

All of Berek's earthlore came from the Theomach - it follows that this did too. Yes it's a paradox, but so is white gold.

Following that thought, might it be that Covenant will prove immune to paradox, given that he IS the White Gold.

[IrrationalSanity]

Actually, I think Linden gave Berek everything needed for the White Gold legend as it was known in the Land at the time of the First Chronicles.

[KAY1]

Back in the first chronicles someone (maybe Tamarantha or Mhoram) was talking about white gold and said that Berek knew of the white gold but had never seen it and something about Kevin desiring it (though of course he would get the story from Berek etc) and the Sandgorgons groaning in their Doom at the mention of it. I forget the exact quote but it was something lke that.
It makes sense that the Theomach would have taught Berek. After all, if he didn't know about white gold and passed the knowledge onto his descendants then people in the Land wouldn't have expected Covenant to save (or damn) them and things could've turned out a whole lot differently.
Even if Berek got the impression from Linden that white gold was very powerful, he would've still needed the Theomach to fill in the blanks.

Or Foul could've told the ravers and they could've spread the word.

[dlbpharmd]

Linden actually showed the ring to Berek in the camp. The Theomach must have filled in the missing details.

[wayfriend]

Well, when Linden showed Berek the ring, he sort of said, yeah yeah, whatever. It had no significance. I think that that implies that there was no legend of white gold at that time.

So the Theomach must have been the original source of the white gold knowledge. (Bleh!)

On the one hand, in later years Kevin came to know enough about it to construct Amok, and Loric the krill. On the other hand, by the time of Prothall all the knowledge was mysteries and prophesies.

[dlbpharmd]

On the one hand, in later years Kevin came to know enough about it to construct Amok, and Loric the krill.

I'm not following this point, WF.

[dukehenry]

On the one hand, in later years Kevin came to know enough about it to construct Amok, and Loric the krill.

I'm not following this point, WF.

Amok, who was the seventh war of Kevin's Lore, knew of the White Gold. See "The Illearth War" ~ p.249

Now, while the Krill responded to the White Gold, I don't think it necessarily was constructed to interact with White Gold. However, it may be laid out quite clearly in the following two books.

[emotional leper]

Wasn't Loric a Seer and Prophet?

[iQuestor]

Loric contructed the Krill and basically ended the threat of the Viles , thus Koric Vile-silencer. I am not sure if he knew of the white gold, and I also am not sure that the Krill was responding to the White Gold itself when it shone white for covenant. True, the Krill shone white when Covenant was in the land, but then again he was the one who awakened it, so it could have tuned itself to him and not necessarily the ring. Then again, Covenant was the white gold, as Mhoram said; he was the paradox and not the ring itself, so I guess this also confuses the issue.

Kevin's knowledge and desire of white gold may well be explained in AATE; since berek didnt know about the white gold, except maybe later through the Theomach, it isnt unpossible for another trip through time for Linden and Cov to go meet him; We know Kevin was unstable from his actions in Andelain with Linden after he was already dead, so I can see him coveting the shit out of it if he knew it was real. Amok knew of it from Kevin we can presume, and was programmed to show up when Covenant/the white gold showed up in the Land.

the prophecies not knowing if the bearer of the white gold would save or damn the Land lends itself to legends born from people knowing about the white gold but probably not ever seeing it or its power used.

The Sandgorgons are another story -- the knowledge of white gold may have somehow come to Bhratherain from the Giants after the events of the first chronicles, even though all the unhomed were dead after he left.

[emotional leper]

Nitpicking: Amok was programmed to show up when the Krill was awakened, because apparently mastery of the Sixth Ward of Kevin's Lore was needed to do so (since Amok was the Seventh Ward, and the Wards were designed to require understanding of the previous Ward before the next could be unlocked.)

I don't think that the White Gold was necessary to the Awakening of the Krill. I think it was Passion, the thing the New Lords lacked via the Oath of Peace.

[iQuestor]

Well, I guess thats a poser, EL. Was there ever an explanation about why covenant's presence awakened it if it was programmed for discovery of the sixth ward? I remember that Amok was confused when he hearned that the sixth wards hadnt been uncovered, but he recognized white gold.. Guess I will have to research that one....

[I'm Murrin]

Covenant awakened the krill because his white gold responds to items of power--Staffs, Orcrest, Lomillialor, the Illearth Stone. It's not specifically designed to be activated by Wild Magic. Amok's appearance was in response to the awakening of the krill, not to Covenant's presence. He would have shown up however it was activated.

[emotional leper]

The ring also responds to Covenant's passion, I thought? What with Covenant himself being the Wild Magic, and the ring merely being a focus.

[IrrationalSanity]

Mhorham also was able to awaken the Krill (a little) once he discovered how the Oath of Peace was limiting the New Lords. Like the fire of their lore, his spark in the gem was blue.

I think the fact that he could light it at all shows that the lore of the New Lords was cumulatively equal to that of the Old Lords - they were blocked from understanding certain aspects of the old lore, but obviously had enough new lore of their own to make up for it if awakening the krill was 6th (ward) level lore. This is bourne out to some extent by their later finding of the third ward (and possibly others, if they were not in "casket" format).

[wayfriend]

On the one hand, in later years Kevin came to know enough about it to construct Amok, and Loric the krill.

I'm not following this point, WF.

Sorry. Loric knew enough about white gold in order to design the krill to respond to it. (I don't think it was merely passion that the krill responded to. The krill knew when Covenant was in the Land.)

And Kevin knew enough about white gold in order to design Amok to respond to it as well.

That's pretty good, considering that "white gold" was nothing more than a phrase for something which legends tell exists. Try designing a machine which is enabled by a unicorn horn or fueled by mithril, and tell me how far you get.

Anyway, it appears that the lore of white gold increased, somehow, until the point of the Desecration, whereupon it was then lost.