Dissection: SS/PS ~ Chapter 8 The Potions Master

Post by **Stubby Boardman** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:16 am

You know I am listening to all of the books again on my ipod since I have the audiobooka nd I sit here and try to give Snape the benefit of the doubt but I can't.

I can see no way for people to really like or love Snape, Im sorry. His treatment of Harry was downright awful but people will say it is b/c of his relationship with James and Lilly that made him that way.

Then I sit and think about his treatment of Ron, Hermoine and especially Neville. It was as disrespectful as a person could be towards a child and uncalled for. I see Snape as nothing more than a adult version of Draco, who is nothing but a bully.

Snape sets the tone for his relationship with Harry throughout the rest of their lives and instead of trying to start a new relationship with a new person he refuses. Just think of how everything could have worked out for the best if he could have started out on a even ground instead of continuing grudges that are YEARS old.

Post by **Seafoam Understone** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:32 am

Stubby Boardman wrote:You know I am listening to all of the books again on my ipod since I have the audiobooka nd I sit here and try to give Snape the benefit of the doubt but I can't.

I can see no way for people to really like or love Snape, Im sorry. His treatment of Harry was downright awful but people will say it is b/c of his relationship with James and Lilly that made him that way.

Then I sit and think about his treatment of Ron, Hermoine and especially Neville. It was as disrespectful as a person could be towards a child and uncalled for. I see Snape as nothing more than a adult version of Draco, who is nothing but a bully.

Snape sets the tone for his relationship with Harry throughout the rest of their lives and instead of trying to start a new relationship with a new person he refuses. Just think of how everything could have worked out for the best if he could have started out on a even ground instead of continuing grudges that are YEARS old.

He probably would've been just the same. Remember that he is a Slytherin and they're all downright unlikable (except amongst each other). Snape was bullied and harassed all his life and he saw in himself greatness and no-one recognized it. Even in his adulthood when he was teaching at Hogwarts his "greatness" wasn't enough to be teaching Defense Against Dark Arts thus fueling his bitterness against those from other houses that taught the class he most coveted.
Just from the first book Rowling casts him in that mold of a nasty sneering type of personality.
But there is a bit of good in the worst of us and as Dumbledore has shown (later) there's a bit of bad in the best of us.

Post by **A Gunslinger** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:05 pm

Stubby Boardman wrote:
I can see no way for people to really like or love Snape, Im sorry. His treatment of Harry was downright awful but people will say it is b/c of his relationship with James and Lilly that made him that way.

Don't make me angry....you wouldn't like me when i'm angry.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 8:04 pm

A Gunslinger wrote:
Stubby Boardman wrote:
I can see no way for people to really like or love Snape, Im sorry. His treatment of Harry was downright awful but people will say it is b/c of his relationship with James and Lilly that made him that way.

Don't make me angry....you wouldn't like me when i'm angry.

Jenn...JENN!!
I think we need to run an intervention here...

Stubby...you know not to whom you speak. Guns predicted the reasons for Snape being the way he is what, two books before DH???

Post by **Cameraman Jenn** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:43 pm

I don't know what sort of intervention I can help with. Snape is a jerk. He's an ass. He's a total selfish mean and petty man. Yes he does do good in the end but he's just not a nice likeable guy. He is beautifully written and I like him as a literary character. But I don't like his personality and I would not be friends with him in real life. Does that make any sense at all?

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:43 pm

Oooo...

*rubbing hands with glee*

This is gonna get good...

Post by **Seafoam Understone** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 1:51 am

Cameraman Jenn wrote:I don't know what sort of intervention I can help with. Snape is a jerk. He's an ass. He's a total selfish mean and petty man. Yes he does do good in the end but he's just not a nice likeable guy. He is beautifully written and I like him as a literary character. But I don't like his personality and I would not be friends with him in real life. Does that make any sense at all?

Oh I agree here but that if (we) didn't know him as well as we do (now). But since (we) do know him the dislike would probably be overshadowed by pity... and oh how Snape would HATE to be pitied. Heh.
No, definitely not a nice guy at all. But I don't see him being malicious. Just a anti-social personality that no-one likes to be around but definitely one not to get on their bad side... because a man with his skills would be... useful indeed.

Post by **Zahir** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:02 am

Well, no, he is not a nice man. On the other hand, he wasn't always that way. Remember Lilly liked him, liked him very much. But he fell in with the wrong crowd and made a horrendous series of mistakes. Odds are he was never one to suffer fools gladly, but in the wake of all that happened, I can easily understand his bitterness. As much suffering as he beyond doubt caused as a cruel teacher of children, methink it is easy to conclude that he suffered himself far more.

Not a nice man. Not when Harry met him.

But when Lilly did? There was still hope then, for the lonely brilliant child who grew up to be Potions Master. I week for that little boy, not least because of what he became--and because I think he realized in his heart of hearts that the vast majority of his pain had become his own doing.

Post by **Seafoam Understone** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:28 am

Zahir wrote:Well, no, he is not a nice man. On the other hand, he wasn't always that way. Remember Lilly liked him, liked him very much. But he fell in with the wrong crowd and made a horrendous series of mistakes. Odds are he was never one to suffer fools gladly, but in the wake of all that happened, I can easily understand his bitterness. As much suffering as he beyond doubt caused as a cruel teacher of children, methink it is easy to conclude that he suffered himself far more.

Not a nice man. Not when Harry met him.

But when Lilly did? There was still hope then, for the lonely brilliant child who grew up to be Potions Master. I week for that little boy, not least because of what he became--and because I think he realized in his heart of hearts that the vast majority of his pain had become his own doing.

Yes I can see that. Yet I would also think that it was unrequited love because while Lily LIKED him a lot she wouldn't have or ever have fallen in LOVE with the boy/man she knew. I've met many a wonderful girl/woman whom I get along with terrific conversations, great fun and all of that... but in their hearts I'll always be held at an arms length. When first realizing that it hurts but I've learned to adjust and go on... Snape I think never got over the pain and when his antagonist, James married her it shattered whatever illusions that maybe just maybe Lily will change her mind and love him. Also devastating is how Lily must have looked so happy while with James Potter. Not to mention that Lily also laughed at him. She wasn't being mean of course but just happened to see the humor in the situation. Cruel humor but it can be funny none-the-less. That cut (among many) cut Snape to the bone. So whatever chance that the nice, good person that was inside of him to be his persona got buried under all that pain and bitterness.
As far as falling in with the wrong crowd. Well he was put into Slytherin after all. His home life wasn't any better. One would imagine that it would've been akin to Sirius living at 12 Grimmauld Place, a house full of Slytherins hating mudbloods and convinced of their own superiority because they're from a long line of Slytherins and imagined Slytherin linage. So growing up in those environments piled on top of the heartache of Lily... yeah a scrooge like character that repented best as he could, betraying the one whom he swore loyalty after they killed the one person that he thought could save him... in effect Lily did, through her love of Harry which flowed over to Severus.

pretty sappy huh?

Post by **Zahir** » Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:44 am

Actually, J.K.Rowling has said that Lilly loved Snape as a friend and could have loved him romatically if he had not been so interested in the Dark Arts.

So yeah, he screwed himself over big time--and the worst of it was, knew it. And he never loved another. *sniff*

He deserves some pity.

Post by **duchess of malfi** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:44 pm

You know besides the obvious (Snape's undying love for Lily and the fact that his own rotten decisions led to him losing her to the very guy who bullied him) - there is a very logical reason for Snape to act as he does towards Harry and Harry's friends.

Not sure what is allowed and what is not allowed, so will spoil this:

Spoiler

Snape has the most dangerous role in the series. He is Dumbledore's deep spy in the Voldemort circles. While publicly he is Voldemort's man in the inner circles of Hogwarts. What a tightrope he has to walk!

And what easier way is there for him to publicly prove that he is Voldemort's man than in picking on Harry and company in class in front of all of the Slytherin kids? You just know those kids go home on breaks and tell their Death Eater parents "Wow! You should have heard old Snapey go after Potter last week in potions class!"

Does this make Snape a nice guy? No, of course it doesn't. I hate the way he treats Harry, too. But in a twisted way, he really is trying to protect Lily's child when you look at the larger picture.

He really is by far the most interesting character in the series for me.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Mon Feb 25, 2008 6:53 pm

Welcome Duchess!
Join Guns and me in our battle cry...

"Free Severus!!!"

Post by **Fuzzy_Logic** » Thu Feb 28, 2008 10:05 pm

Seafoam Understone wrote: Remember that he is a Slytherin and they're all downright unlikable (except amongst each other).

Except, of course, for my idol, Slughorn.

Snape was bullied and harassed all his life and he saw in himself greatness and no-one recognized it. Even in his adulthood when he was teaching at Hogwarts his "greatness" wasn't enough to be teaching Defense Against Dark Arts thus fueling his bitterness against those from other houses that taught the class he most coveted.

Maybe, but remember that

Spoiler

Dumbledore knew that giving Snape the job would necessitate him leaving the school. It wasn't that Snape was unqualified -- he seems to have been a pretty effective instructor-- it was that D-dore couldn't afford ot part with him. Snape must have known that, which means his insistence on publicly seeking the job must have been some part of thier game.

[/spoiler]

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

Dissection: SS/PS ~ Chapter 8 The Potions Master