Informal Group Read 2007

"Reflect" on Stephen Donaldson's other epic fantasy

Moderator: Cord Hurn

User avatar
shadowbinding shoe
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 am

Post by shadowbinding shoe »

Chapter Six: A Few Lessons

What can I add about this chapter?

We get a long look at Master Quillon. Wearing plain gray robes, he has bright eyes, protruding teeth and a nose that twitched and kept on twitching. He is rabbit-like. I'm not sure what his rabbity appearance signifies. Is it a facade of weakness intended to fool foes? Maybe a little but I think it is more that he represents Mordant itself and its citizens. As he tells us in his history lesson Mordant is a non-aggressive nation rich in farming lands that is situated between two beasts of prey that covet it for themselves (Alend and Cadwal). Likewise he is a member of the peace-seeking Congery beset by the unknown Imager(s) that send their horrors against his people.

So he is 'a rabbit' but that doesn't make him pathetic or weak. He is a decent man that try to act on his beliefs. Caught in the ideal that King Joyce and his Adept propagated he faces his challenges without flinching.



I went into the Hop-Board themes in the last chapter. In this one we have Havelock again sitting in front of an empty board moving imaginary pieces. What's going on there?

- It is a sign of his madness (the classical symptoms)

- We can't see yet what is going on (in the struggle for Mordant). Both Havelock's opponent and their moves and pieces are hidden.

- None of the players in the 'game of thrones' have taken their places openly on the board. The stage is still empty.

- Havelock is setting the board by guiding Terisa in the right direction.



We also learn some interesting things about Imagery and its history:

- The first High King of Cadwal was an Arch-Imager. He consolidated Cadwal as a nation through the use of Imagery. Later Alend was also consolidated through the force of Imagery. Cadwal is the oldest nation of the three.

- The number of Imagers in the Congery seems pretty low when compared to the historical examples. When Terisa enters Mordant, there are only about 30 Imagers to welcome her. But in the past more than a hundred were used by Cadwal alone for example. Perhaps the wars and the decimation of Vagel's cabal (and other rogue Imagers that couldn't be controlled?) left the numbers of Imagers in Mordant low. Or is Quillon's assertion that Imagery seems to flourish in times of war more true than we realized?

- What a great description of Havelock going mad 8O
User avatar
shadowbinding shoe
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 am

Post by shadowbinding shoe »

Chapter Seven: The Dungeons of Orison

In the previous chapter we met Mater Quillon. In this one we meet Castellan Lebbick. Surprising
Spoiler
how normal and in control of himself
he is in this first encounter. The changes in him are really staggering. He has gray clothes, gray hair, gray eyes (like Master Quillon's gray robes?) Havelock wore white, Geraden brown and Eremis and the assassin black.

Donadson portrays his position very well I thought. What does a man do when he has to follow orders from a beloved superior that make no sense? He vents his anger and frustration on Argus and Ribuld for stepping out of line. Terisa needed protection but Joyce didn't give the orders even though she is a valued guest under his protection. If they did the right thing their example would push him to follow their footsteps and disregard his king while following his own instincts. But he can't forsake his king so Argus, Ribuld and Geraden suffer his wrath. And what is the solution? If Terisa can be demonized, than that would justify him in following his king's orders to ignore her safety.

Saddith brags about her affair with a Master. I wonder what does this give her? Can they give her positions in the Castle? Is it, as the chasubles indicate a little like sleeping with a priest? They don't have vows of chastity but maybe they tend to be recluses?

The Masters have their mirrors stationed in the dungeons in converted jail cells. What a frightening beast that giant slug is.

Seeing the welcome Geraden gets in the Champion's world, maybe they ought to communicate with him from a safer distance. By translating papers with their written requests on them? I'm not sure if they would comprehend Mordant's writing. Does Terisa ever read text in Mordant's world?

And why is Geraden again and again suspicious of Terisa? It's because he is about to betray everything he believed in up 'til now (the Congery, his King and even his country in a sense) for the sake of doing the right thing. The attack on Terisa the night before was a turning point for him. He sees the king's disregard for Terisa's safety and Lebbick's anger at him as a sign that they have failed her. That maybe they don't deserve her help being so callous of her. So he tries to convince himself that she was deceitful. If she was then the king and castellan's actions could be justified. But Terisa convinces him she is not. And he renounces his loyalty to his king.
User avatar
shadowbinding shoe
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 am

Post by shadowbinding shoe »

Chapter 8: Various Encounters & Chapter 9: Master Eremis at Play

Terisa compares herself to her mother. She doesn't want to be like her, a tool ruled by her father. First she tries to be more assertive and independent (and hurts Geraden by her disregard for his feelings). Then she tries to be like one of her father's mistresses who beat her mother for his affections (and again hurts Geraden). In between she tries to be herself as she was before coming to Mordant: too insignificant to be noticed and made a tool.

Elega is an interesting woman. She looks like a feminist who'd like to matter but she doesn't believe in her abilities as a woman. She tries to be a man (wears short hair and talks like one), and think Terisa would be useless without spacial powers that would make her more than just a woman. While her mother sounded like a strong person who probably affected the decisions of the court, Elega grumbles.

Myste on the other hand was a little scary. What does she sees with her visionary sight?

We meet Master Eremis (in both chapters) and see him in play. What can we think of him? Master Eremis can't stand not being the center of attention. When the Perdon has arrived and everyone tries to guess what happens in the throne-room Eremis is there by the door fuming that nobody notices him. He hates being ridiculed even more. When Geraden and Saddith sabotage his seduction of Terisa he is ready to kill from rage at being the butt of the joke.

Terisa makes a good assessment of him at this time.

Why Master Eremis is a man who 'plays games':
"You don't show much respect for people when you talk about them in private, so when you act respectful in public you don't sound sincere. And you aren't consistent. You seem to do things" ... " like propose to make Geraden a Master, not because you believe in them, but because you like surprising people."
Terisa says he is a false man who cares for no one but himself and instead of countering the meat of her assessment he concentrates on incidental issues like not being consistent. He claims to have always been supportive of Geraden (which sounds particularly weak since he just said he did him no kindness in suggesting Mastership to him - without let us note offering any merits that would make the Congery consider him seriously). Then, when Terisa raises his acceptance of Gilbur to his meeting with the rulers of the Cares he becomes too enamored with his own cleverness to remember what they were talking about. Clearly what concerns him is not to be revealed as false, not being false itself.

And then we have his interactions with Geraden. Anyone who saw what happened between Geraden Eremis and Terisa would say Geraden does what he does because he cares about Terisa or that he is in love with her and don't want Eremis to make his claim on her. But Eremis draws a very different conclusion. Geraden barges into his room because he wants to revenge himself on Eremis for the humiliation he suffered in the Congery. Is Master Eremis really that blind to the possibility that Geraden acts for the sake of Terisa instead of for himself or against Eremis?

I really have to give it to Geraden here. The woman he starts to fall in love with and really cares for is flinging herself at a man he despises and instead of bashing his head against the wall, drinking himself senseless or trying to pick a fight with Eremis he tries to tell Terisa that she's making a mistake. I don't think many guys could have done it in his place. He doesn't care about his ego he cares only about Terisa.

Comparing Geraden and Eremis also highlight the fact that while Geraden is willing to go to any lengths for the sake of Terisa and doesn't give up no matter what Eremis always let Terisa slip his clutches when other issues rise. He is not ruled by a passion for her but logic. First Geraden asks to take her when she first arrives and he steps back, then the Perdon appears and he forsakes her in order to cozy himself to him and now he let her go because the King's daughter wanted to see her. As Terisa says, his laughter lacks Geraden's unconstrained quality.

And I found this interesting passage of Saddith:
"Don't you like what you're doing now?"

At that, Saddith glanced sharply at Terisa as if to gauge the intent of the question. Whatever she saw, however, reaffirmed her faith in Terisa's innocence; she relaxed at once...
The previous times I read it I thought innocence meant Terisa lack of knowledge about men and sex. Now I see it's actually lack of suspicions about Saddith. Saddith is involved in something shady at the moment and she fears Terisa would find out.

Later when Saddith interrupts Terisa and Eremis in his rooms, Saddith and Eremis act like Saddith is his maid, not Terisa'.

It makes me wonder about the way Saddith behaves with Terisa. She offers to teach her how to be a 'woman' like her (a tavern wench). She chooses to dress her in scarlet before her first meeting with Eremis. Is she in fact there to mold Terisa to Eremis' liking? To be a whore instead of a lady?
User avatar
shadowbinding shoe
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 1477
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2008 6:33 am

Post by shadowbinding shoe »

And now, for something completely different: an actual new chapter!

Chapter Ten: The Last Alend Ambassador (summary)

Saddith has snatched Terisa from Eremis' seduction chambers (on the pretext that she was summoned by the Lady Myste) just before the Master could teach Terisa what boys do with girls. Outside his chambers they meet with Geraden. He and Saddith immediately start laughing their heads off at foiling Master Eremis' plans and finally Terisa reluctantly joins them. She's not sure how to feel about the whole thing.

Terisa alone seems to worry how Eremis might revenge his humiliation on Geraden and Saddith. Geraden justifies his interference with one of his strongest feelings. Saddith believes he did it out of manly jealousy.

Before they go very far, Master Quillon suddenly appears and commands Geraden to help him with his Imagery projects. Geraden is not very enthusiastic and tries to wriggle out of it but Master Quillon is adamant and Geraden finally gives up and go with him. (seems like Terisa has replaced the place of Imagery in his heart)

Saddith makes some insightful comments to Terrisa (that Eremis is a dangerous man, that Geraden has his attractions as sexual partner and that Castelan Lebbick is a recent widower - free for the taking according to Saddith, who was controlled by his dead wife and now hates all women (on the surface). Because he thinks they seduce him from his memories of his wife?) But insightful as she might be she should learn some caution before she bites on more than she can chew!

Terisa then meets Myste who waits for her in Terisa's rooms and they talk. Terisa is unsure how to act because she never really had a friend before but despite her awkwardness you can feel how well they fit together. What distinguishes Myste's offer of friendship from Geraden's? True, she's female but she calls the Checkers-playing servant from her childhood a friend as well.

Terisa says:
Myste was one of the few people here who didn't have some kind of outlandish or even lethal expectations of her - one of the few with whom it might be possible to have a simple friendship.
Terisa and Myste come from similar backgrounds in a sense. They are both the daughters of a powerful man but inherit none of his power.

She starts with empty courtesy (offers a sit, wine) - imitating her mother? then confesses her lack of social experience and goes on behaving like a small child (whines about how everybody distrust everybody else and they all have expectations of her).

At Terisa's prodding Myste talks about her sister Elega. While Elega is driven by ambition, Myste "thinks better of being a woman ... and of those who hold power in Orison"

Myste expositions her philosophical beliefs about courage of ordinary people (women) and of Imagery. She puts Terisa on a pedestal and under her probing Terisa grows poetic on her experiences of Imagey and in the mission.

Myste calls Terisa wise several times because:
-She can see the truth of herself in the mirrors of her world (Terisa points that she sees only the surface of things)

-Knowing that no one she met is wise: she is not fooled by appearances of wisdom.

When Terisa tells Myste about her work in the Mission and her reasons for doing it, Myste is very excited by the strangeness of Terisa's world and seems to long to take part in an adventure outside the ordinary bounds of her life.

Terisa is really opening up to Myste and begins telling her about the abuse she suffered from her father but they are interrupted by Saddith and the conversation turns to what Translation felt like to Terisa.

I can never decide whether Myste sees with her penetrating gaze unexplored depths of Terisa's heart that nobody else suspected or she is constructing phantasms out of whole cloth that have little to do with Terisa. Both Myste and Elega in their different ways have these preconceived images of Terisa and can't see the real Terisa because of them.

But this was only the first half of the chapter. Saddith returns with exciting news. An Alend ambassador has arrived and the king is convening a formal audience for him. It is prince Kragen, the son of the Alend monarch and the commander of the Alend army. Myste hopes this means her father has returns to his old self and they both hurry to the Hall of Audiences.

This hall has a balcony with archers for protection. Terisa sits in a place of honor with the king's daughter in a section reserved for the civil ministers of the land. The military officers and Imagers of the Congery are also present, in another section of the hall (does this mean the Imagers are considered part of the military of Mordant?)

This is all very impressive until King Joyce and Adept Havelock enter the hall. Adept Havelock dances madly while he sings disjointed ditties and swings a smoking censer into people's faces. King Joyce sits in his throne like a boneless rag doll. Still everybody tries to proceed as if everything is normal led by their Castellan Lebbick who assumes the part of majordomo.

Prince Kragen is admitted and proposes an alliance between Mordant and Alend. The Alend Monarch seems to have changed since the wars and become enlightened. He wants to gain Mordant's and its king's trust by giving his help freely. But King Joyce just wants to insult Kragen. He compares him to a raving puppy and forces him at arrow-point to play hop-board with Terisa, supposedly to gauge their characters. Kragen has no idea how to play it since he never played the game in his life and copycats Terisa's moves. Trying to be diplomatic she leads the game into a stalemate. The meeting breaks with another insulting "you're more of puppy than I thought." from Joyce.

Lebbick (and some other unnamed people) are eager for Alendish blood.

Elega is seething / shamed at her father's inappropriate behavior with Kragen and impressed by Kragen's boldness and runs after him at the end of the meeting.

Myste is heartbroken at her father's decline and public humiliation and runs after him

Is the threat on Kragen's life a break of truce laws? I'm not sure if they work the same way in Mordant's world as in ours.
Post Reply

Return to “Mordant's Need”