Question on ceasures?

[Xar]

Personally, I don't believe the Demondim are bestial, unreasonable creatures either... after all, they were said to be mighty in lore, and to be wise as well until they learned self-loathing. If the ur-viles and the Waynhim are so intelligent already, how much more intelligent can their creators be?

I tend to believe that they are acting out of fear and confusion - or possibly that they are being led somewhere by some other power, such as Esmer. But I don't think they are intrinsically evil; after all, their creations - alien as they are - have shown themselves capable of defying Foul...

[Jerico]

Could the whole purpose of the Lindens time travel and Ceasures be to bring the Ur-viles, Demondin, and Wynhim together again?
Could the whole travel back in time to get the Staff only be a major cover up to get these creatures in the same 'Time'???
If the Viles come in to these last books we could see some major coolness with all of the race together!!

[wayfriend]

Could the whole purpose of the Lindens time travel and Ceasures be to bring the Ur-viles, Demondin, and Wynhim together again?
Could the whole travel back in time to get the Staff only be a major cover up to get these creatures in the same 'Time'???
If the Viles come in to these last books we could see some major coolness with all of the race together!!

Well, the Demondim got together with the ur-viles and waynhim already. But there wasn't much interest in a re-union; they just started shooting at each other. If the intent of the storyline was to re-unite these races, something would have happened at that time.

[dlbpharmd]

Along those lines - the Waynhim and ur-viles were decimated by their battle with the Demondim, there's not many of either race left to reunite with.

[Cord]

Ok

Home come the word caesure is always in italics ?

(or is that too pedantic !

Is italicisation some sign of how it is pronounced ?

[dlbpharmd]

From the GI:

Hello Mr. Donaldson,

...

The one thing I find perplexing is why are certain words like Haruchai, merewives and caesures *always* italicized? A boring question for sure, but it is harrying me! =P

Joseph

...

The rationale for the way certain words are consistently italicized is that they are "foreign" words (foreign, that is, to the "native tongue" of the narrative, the Land's inhabitants, etc.). This is common usage (consult any familiar "style manual" of English grammer, punctuation, and so on)--although it hardly *appears* common because the inherent xenophobia of US culture prevents most writers from drawing on foreign languages. I can get away with it in a fantasy novel because fantasy readers *expect*--and even desire--the existence of other cultures.

(05/12/2005)

[Ur Dead]

But not from before the Laws of Life and Death were broken. When they were intact, Time was protected from ceasures. (Can a wound in time go back in time to a time when time was protected from being wounded? I guess the answer is no if you want readers to remain sane when they think about it.) Call the time when both Laws were broken the "LD point". This is 3500 years before ROTE, Land time.

Ceasures can be created at any time after the "LD point". It's not tied to the time it is when Joan is doing the pounding. Joan got her ring 90 years befoe ROTE, Land time. Call that the "JR point". ceasures can be created before the JR point, but not before the LD point. Even though the act that creates them is after the JR point.

They move forward of their own accord. They can be forced to do otherwise.

It's all pretty clear to me!!!

But the Demondim weren't around after the LD point, so how could they have arrived from before then? I think that's the question being asked.

There's the catch.. The LL point was 3500 years previous. About the time of the second chronicles. (or at the end). Nobody really knows when the Demondin disappeared. It was never stated. But the Illearth Stone was destroyed at the end of the 1st Chronicles. That was an additional 3500 years. From Rote it was explained that that the Demondin were using a ceasure to tap the power of IE Stone before Drool found it. Thats before the the LD was broken.

Some aspects of the time travel havn't been explained fully.

Spoiler

If the ceasure were limited to the LD point (7000 years) how did Roger get Linden back 10000 years to the time of Berek?

SRD is a bit vague on this issue, so I will ask this. Its known that ceasures do not last very long. Also some of them are smaller than others. Does that mean that the size of the ceasure limits it distance of how far back it can go?
Remember that the Deamondin's ceasure was very large, larger than Linden return ceasure. So the size and duration may be the limiting factor on a ceasure.
Also with Esmer and Roger, being apart of the Elohim race (in some connected way) that they do not have any limits on how far back they can go. It might be an aspect of Earthpower. It might be a portion of Kevin's lost lore.

[Relayer]

This stuff should be spoilered in the Runes forum...

Spoiler

Ur Dead wrote: If the ceasure were limited to the LD point (7000 years) how did Roger get Linden back 10000 years to the time of Berek?

Roger didn't use a caesure. He presumably used some sort of elohim lore.

Its known that ceasures do not last very long. Also some of them are smaller than others. Does that mean that the size of the ceasure limits it distance of how far back it can go?
Remember that the Deamondin's ceasure was very large, larger than Linden return ceasure. So the size and duration may be the limiting factor on a ceasure.

That makes sense. I also think of it like a rip in fabric... it starts in one small place, then is able to spread. So maybe something similar happens w/ caesures... small, undirected ones (Joan's) tend to peter out after a while but one controlled by Demondim can be made to spread further and further back in time...

[shinnok]

But not from before the Laws of Life and Death were broken. When they were intact, Time was protected from ceasures. (Can a wound in time go back in time to a time when time was protected from being wounded? I guess the answer is no if you want readers to remain sane when they think about it.) Call the time when both Laws were broken the "LD point". This is 3500 years before ROTE, Land time.

Ceasures can be created at any time after the "LD point". It's not tied to the time it is when Joan is doing the pounding. Joan got her ring 90 years befoe ROTE, Land time. Call that the "JR point". ceasures can be created before the JR point, but not before the LD point. Even though the act that creates them is after the JR point.

They move forward of their own accord. They can be forced to do otherwise.

It's all pretty clear to me!!!

But the Demondim weren't around after the LD point, so how could they have arrived from before then? I think that's the question being asked.

There's the catch.. The LL point was 3500 years previous. About the time of the second chronicles. (or at the end). Nobody really knows when the Demondin disappeared. It was never stated. But the Illearth Stone was destroyed at the end of the 1st Chronicles. That was an additional 3500 years. From Rote it was explained that that the Demondin were using a ceasure to tap the power of IE Stone before Drool found it. Thats before the the LD was broken.

Some aspects of the time travel havn't been explained fully. If the ceasure were limited to the LD point (7000 years) how did Roger get Linden back 10000 years to the time of Berek? SRD is a bit vague on this issue, so I will ask this. Its known that ceasures do not last very long. Also some of them are smaller than others. Does that mean that the size of the ceasure limits it distance of how far back it can go?
Remember that the Deamondin's ceasure was very large, larger than Linden return ceasure. So the size and duration may be the limiting factor on a ceasure.
Also with Esmer and Roger, being apart of the Elohim race (in some connected way) that they do not have any limits on how far back they can go. It might be an aspect of Earthpower. It might be a portion of Kevin's lost lore.

Spoiler

Neither the Elohim nor the Insequent need to use ceasures for time travel.

[mod edit - no Fatal Revenant spoilers in this forum please.]

[HYNYN]

I am new so bear with me... but THE way I read them a ceasure is a fracture of time... every moment that has ever happened or will happen, is taking place simulaltaneously... begging to end of the Arc of time... she ponds her temple with the white gold ring and voila a small hole in the time continuum....

remember in the land all time is contained within the Arch