The Official Vice President Thread

Post by **Cail** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:49 pm

Hmmm, yet the people (you know, the ones who are supposed to have the power) still elected him. So it sounds like Lieberman did the right thing and his constituents agreed.

Post by **Plissken** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:02 pm

He moved to the Right, and picked up enough Bush supporters (remember when that was possible?) to win, yes. Doesn't mean I have to like him for it.

Post by **Cail** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:14 pm

Wait a minute, Lieberman was already relatively Right. Regardless, it sounds like both you and LM are more pissed with him that he broke loyalty, and not crediting him for sticking with his principles.

That's exactly why I refuse to align myself with a political party anymore. Parties don't matter, principles do.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:32 pm

Lord Mhoram wrote:Malik,

Lieberman officially broke off from the Democrats in 2006 because that year he lost his own party's nomination. Let's remember that, too.

Yes, that's the point. He didn't leave the party because they were losing. He left during a time when they were regaining their power, and the anger against Bush and the war had reached all time highs.

What principles did he abandon?

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:08 pm

Malik,

He didn't leave the party because they were losing.

He only "chose" to formally leave the Democratic Party after he lost the ability to run on their ticket for the United States Senate. This is not a principled stand.

What principles did he abandon?

As far as I can tell, aside from his blinding, militant support for Israel and his overriding moralism (video games are bad; Bill Clinton is a bad person for having an affair; Democrats are bad for not supporting the President in a time of war; etc.), he never had any.

Post by **Brother Charn** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 4:53 pm

Vain wrote:Oy Vey !! I'm not sure you guys quite get it yet Palin is the absolutely best pick that McCain could possibly have made.

If McCain picked someone bland and safe, he might have filled a school classroom during his campaign stops. The entire ticket would have received less media coverage than Biden gets.

Conservatives would not have been fired up (those that claim to be conservatives but are flip-flopping on voting aren't really conservatives).

If he had picked someone male then a whole bunch of Hillary supporters would not have switched sides to actively campaign and vote for McCain (and don't tell me they're not - they are but the media won't admit to it)

Flip-floppers should just get over themselves and go and vote Mccain if Obama isn't the person they want to see as POTUS.

I feel forced to agree with you partially... I always thought Palin was a brilliant choice on the part of McCain or the GOP, or whoever actually made it. However, I never considered the vajayjays to be interchangeable, as you (and the GOP apparently) seem to think most American women are... and in fact, I know there are many women deeply incensed at the idea they should take up for Palin as a surrogate for Hillary, simply because they are both women. Idealogically, as far as we have been allowed to learn, they are about as different as oil and water, or perhaps oil and solar.
I have said this all along, though - choosing her was brilliant. Evil, but brilliant.

Go Sith!

Post by **Vain** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:50 am

hehe - Sith indeed

But like it or not, millions of Hillary voters will be voting McCain because they want to stick it to Obama just like he stuck it to Hillary

Lieberman would have been an awful choice. Notice how the age of McCain has fallen by the wayside? With Lieberman they would have lampooned two doddering old men. Compare that to a young and charismatic Palin that effectively negates a young and charismatic Obama.

And of course Palin divides people - she separates the wheat from the chaff

But those that sway her way long enough will stay her way.

Post by **[Syl]** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 12:53 pm

But those that sway her way long enough will stay her way.

Once you go 'hack' you never go back?

Post by **Vain** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 1:54 pm

hehe

Apparently it's the same for black

Post by **Plissken** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:55 pm

Vain wrote:hehe - Sith indeed

But like it or not, millions of Hillary voters will be voting McCain because they want to stick it to Obama just like he stuck it to Hillary

Lieberman would have been an awful choice. Notice how the age of McCain has fallen by the wayside? With Lieberman they would have lampooned two doddering old men. Compare that to a young and charismatic Palin that effectively negates a young and charismatic Obama.

And of course Palin divides people - she separates the wheat from the chaff But those that sway her way long enough will stay her way.

You're right. Palin is a fantastic choice for the GOP. Once she winnows the Party down to only the most hardcore Conservatives (the "Real Americans"), that energized base will finally control the Grand Old Party. They can run on a platform of "pure" social issues and war - and constantly get 30% of the vote.

It's not enough to actually win anything, mind. But at least all of the "fake" Conservatives will have been winnowed out. They can vote Independent, also lose, and we "fake" Americans can get on with the serious business of actually running the country.

Post by **Rawedge Rim** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:29 pm

Lord Mhoram wrote:Malik,
He didn't leave the party because they were losing.
He only "chose" to formally leave the Democratic Party after he lost the ability to run on their ticket for the United States Senate. This is not a principled stand.
What principles did he abandon?
As far as I can tell, aside from his blinding, militant support for Israel and his overriding moralism (video games are bad; Bill Clinton is a bad person for having an affair; Democrats are bad for not supporting the President in a time of war; etc.), he never had any.

I'm not sure how you see it as an "unprincipled stand". He recieved little support from the Democratic Party because of his support for the war, and when he lost (by only a little) his parties election, he ran on the independent ticket and managed a win, and still caucus' with the Democrats (which I think he screwed up doing, he should have stuck it to the Dem's for sticking it to him.)

Post by **Cail** » Fri Oct 31, 2008 10:22 pm

That's a good point. The DNC hung Lieberman out to dry.

Post by **balon!** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:23 am

Question: Biden is still on the ticket (I think) in the run for Senate. If Obama loses, and Biden wins the senate seat, he remains a Senator. But what happens if Obama wins the Presidency AND Biden wins his Senate race. Does the runner up take Biden's place?

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:32 am

The Governor of the Senator's state appoints a successor.

Post by **balon!** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:43 am

Lord Mhoram wrote:The Governor of the Senator's state appoints a successor.

Whoever they choose? Does it have to be from the same party as would have won?

Post by **aliantha** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:17 pm

balon! wrote:
Lord Mhoram wrote:The Governor of the Senator's state appoints a successor.
Whoever they choose? Does it have to be from the same party as would have won?

I don't think so, but chances are excellent that it will be. Delaware's governor is also a Democrat.

Same issue in Illinois, btw -- the governor there will have to appoint somebody to fill out Obama's term.

Post by **Lord Mhoram** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:24 pm

It's completely up to the Governor's discretion.

The Governor if Illinois is also a Democrat.

Post by **Revan** » Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:25 pm

I'm as happy that Obama got in as I am that Palin didn't.

Post by **Zarathustra** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 5:10 am

Some very disturbing news concerning Sarah coming out of Fox. Search for the "Frozen Out" story with the picture of Sarah.

I don't know how much of this is true, but according to anonymous aides to the McCain campaign, Sarah didn't know the countries in NAFTA, couldn't name all the countries in North America, didn't know that Africa was a continent instead of a country, etc., etc. Quite a bit of drama in the campaign staff is detailed, too. Sarah didn't like how she was handled, and wanted to go out and defend herself against the media charges personally, but the McCain campaign kept her under wraps in fear of more embarrassment.

I'm really surprised that these kinds of nasty stories are coming out. I'm even more surprised that Fox News is reporting them. (Well, I'm not really surprised about that--but I can see how others might be.) Clearly, the blame game has begun, and there are people with an ax to grind.

But if this stuff is true, it's pretty bad. I'm not sure how it compares to Biden's gaffes--or Obama's for that matter--but it's sad that the people running for the highest office aren't more . . . Presidential.

Post by **Holsety** » Thu Nov 06, 2008 6:06 am

I'm really surprised that these kinds of nasty stories are coming out. I'm even more surprised that Fox News is reporting them. (Well, I'm not really surprised about that--but I can see how others might be.) Clearly, the blame game has begun, and there are people with an ax to grind.

Ya, and I'm not completely sure I think it's Palin's fault. I don't think she did any favors among her base but I don't think she really hurt it either. I'm kind of curious if there's anyone on KW who was undecided beforehand but went either way because of Palin being picked as the VP candidate. I should go make a poll about that. I mean someone else should.

Then again, I'm in a pretty blue college that's located in a pretty red county, so I meet mostly folks who were pretty strongly Obama or pretty strongly mccain (folks who are either going to convince themselves to hate Palin or convince themselves to like her). I've certainly met some repub students and liberal townies and just plain not-voting types, but I didn't come across any undecided voters myself (I did canvas in Ohio for Obama in the primaries but not at all in the generals so that might have something to do with it).

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The Official Vice President Thread