FR First Impression

Book 2 of the Last Chronicles of Thomas Covenant

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ellll
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Post by ellll »

Such Great material for the novice I am...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post by ellll »

Sure would like to se a bit more activity here.... :D :D

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Post by amanibhavam »

How'bout you starting a new discussion?
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Post by krzycho »

First impression? I like it, much more than "The Runes of the Earth". However, some ideas are still simply... silly. Ceasures and this whole stroy with the Law of Time- healing Berek's warriors will not alter past ? oh, please, apply some logic. I know that this is the Land and almost everything is possible... but still I think that it was ok, when (in the First Chronicles) Donaldson just wrote that Ranyhyn have mastered Time and know when they will be summoned. Now, when he is trying to explain how it works...-I do not find his explanations plausible. But maybe I'm just to stupid to understand it ;) Nevermind ;)
And I do not like The Insequent- mighty and wise as they are, they should have appeared in previous books, when the existence of the Earth was at stake. They also were endangered... why didn't they oppose ?
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Post by sweetbread »

krzycho wrote: And I do not like The Insequent- mighty and wise as they are, they should have appeared in previous books, when the existence of the Earth was at stake. They also were endangered... why didn't they oppose ?
As you can see from reading FR, they did. Not only did Theomach help Berek to attain his Lordship and create his Staff of Law (which may or may not still be Linden's Staff), but the Insequent also played a role in sending the Haruchai out into the Land; the benefit of which has been evident for ages. Just think about what the first Chronicles would have been like without Bannor.

I think what you're asking is, "Why didn't WE know about them in the previous books?" That is a question which, in an of itself, has a completely different and difficult answer.
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Post by Brinn of the Haruchai »

Just finished it today in a week and I have to concur like most of the posts, this book made me want MORE!! It was not only and enjoyable read, it made me have true emotions while reading. THe only qualm I have is the ending!!!! Well it is not a problem as much as it ended leaving me wanting more!
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Post by Brasidas »

sweetbread wrote:
krzycho wrote: And I do not like The Insequent- mighty and wise as they are, they should have appeared in previous books, when the existence of the Earth was at stake. They also were endangered... why didn't they oppose ?
As you can see from reading FR, they did. Not only did Theomach help Berek to attain his Lordship and create his Staff of Law (which may or may not still be Linden's Staff), but the Insequent also played a role in sending the Haruchai out into the Land; the benefit of which has been evident for ages. Just think about what the first Chronicles would have been like without Bannor.

I think what you're asking is, "Why didn't WE know about them in the previous books?" That is a question which, in an of itself, has a completely different and difficult answer.
Speaking for myself, I was completely happy with the explanation for the Bloodguard being in the Land as it was given in the First Chrons. I think all this backfill has left the story a poorer one.
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Post by Nerdanel »

I'll give some thoughts I remembered having while reading Fatal Revenant:

The first chapters are very talky. Covenant and Jeremiah are definitely not alright. I suspect Covenant might be really Roger, with some "alterations". I think Roger might be possessed by Jehannum. Jeremiah might be possessed by Lord Foul himself.

Linden destroying the Demondim's caesure = awesome!

The Insequent so were not there in the original conception of the story. I don't like the Theomach. He's too much of an undisguised plot device.

Meeting Berek is moderately interesting, but I just felt no danger about all those soldiers mistrusting Linden at first. It was clear which way the plot was blowing, and that way was a mass healing of the wounded.

Seven Words with explanations? Wow. I sure didn't expect that mystery to be solved, after all this time.

I'm thinking that "Covenant" might actually be shapeshifted Kastenessen due to all that fire magic he suddenly has. But could Kastenessen hide his eyes even part of the time? The no-touching thing could certainly go well with hiding Kastenessen's body temperature.

The results of "Tell me the truth!" are among the most powerful scenes in this series, even if it's all description. It turns out that my instincts about Roger and Kastenessen were both pointing at the right direction. I was surprised to see the croyel as my croyel-watch was dedicated in finding people carrying mysterious babies and the like. But SRD was more imaginative than that! Then we get a cool battle. Linden rocks!

The Mahdoubt turns out to be rather mundane after all for all her time travel and stuff. The story could have been cooler if SRD had instead used one of my ideas. It turns out that all the speculation of the Mahdoubt's identity was vain, since the Insequent weren't yet introduced and we had no way of knowing about them.

For all that scaremongering by Roger, I don't feel threatened by Caerroil Wildwood. He's basically a good guy and Linden can't die at this stage of the story. Oh, we finally got those runes the Staff had been missing for the longest time.

I didn't like the demise of the Demondim. They were so cool. I didn't get nearly enough of the Demondim. Instead we get the Harrow, who is not nearly as cool. Do the Insequent grow on trees?

I think the Mahdoubt will be back. I expect trouble from her.

The Battle of Five Incomphrehensible Armies = Reminds me of Erikson. Over the top. Probably too over the top. It's also not nearly as grim as the LFB Soaring Woodhelven equivalent. Instead of burying corpses, we get a lot of tending the wounded. An old, high-status married couple dies in LFB but lives here.

I was thinking the Sandgorgons would do something to this effect due to the evil in the fragments of Sheol.

Salva Gildenbourne had a nice claustrophobic feel. Very disadvantageous terrain for the main characters, while the skurj move unhindered.

The roleplayer in me was shouting "Use water and/or cold type damage!" when the company met the skurj, but I remembered that the only barrier Linden could do was fire. She could do a lot better with the power she had if she learned to diversify her attacks instead of being able to channel only fire and positive energy. As it was, she was able to surpass the skurj's big fire resistance, but she would have dealed so many more hitpoints of damage with an ice-based attack. Luckily Liand eventually figured out the monsters' weakness.

A meeting with Giants, just like before... WHAT? He attacks her? ...Okay, it turns out that after all the meeting is fairly similar, but not quite identical.

Were-menhir = Worst. Name. Ever.

For all that foreshadowing, Linden's Krill decision was actually sensible in her situation, if full of unknown risks. There's no way she could have foreseen the Worm thing. Covenant (and Lord Foul!) is the Seer and Prophet here.
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Post by dlbpharmd »

Excellent post, Nerdanel.
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Post by lurch »

Okay,,I am very late to this thread,,and am at the disadvantage of being not Fresh with a first impression. I have re-read FR once and am involved in the Dissect now. Yet, I can remember.

I recall being struck by the surfacing of the Surreal to Plot level...up from the thematic level. Bravo for the author. Linden's encounter with the Vile brought the Surreal to obviousness that perhaps RotE with the Esmer character only suggested. With the Surreal plainly worn on sleeve, all Logic used in perceiving this book is,,well,,exactly as the Title says,,a Fatal Revenant. The authors Twist of Words remains True.

With The Surreal perspective,,problems identified by others in the preceding posts,,simply did not exist for me. The author treating the reader as Linden,,worked very well for me. A whole Surreal dimension was emphasized in the " inner psychological turmoil landscape." ..More than once Linden was either congratulated or rewarded by emphatically not using Logic in solving Mystery. Logic is anathema to the Surreal.

Mystery is the whole deal in search for Identity.At the foundation of Surrealism is the basic question,,Who Am I? Being True ,begs the question, Being True to What?,,and the What, is the Mystery. Illusions and Truth of the What are explored in FR. The book begins in Mystery and ends in Mystery. Big Hint There. Mystery is to be explored,,,endlessly,,not solved. Mystery and Imagination are the same,or ,,Mystery is a character of the Imagination,until it ( Imagination) is explored and created from.
Exploring Ones Imagination is a key tenet of Surrealism.Exploring the Imagination free of anchors and baggage and impediments is required to understand the infinity of Imagination. Linden still seems in the process of shedding the baggage by end of FR,but, that remains a mystery as it must.

I was and remain awe struck by the authors rise to a new level, or dimension expansion in FR. SRD stated that he worried about being successful with the Last Chrons. IMHO,,he has been very successful. His Metaphor creation and building are sublime. There are dimensions created in his use of English that ,,expand the envelope for Fantasy Writers and just about any other form of Literature Writing . ImhO,,perhaps the Freedom of the Fantasy genre,,is being thoroughly enjoyed by the author like no other.

Okay,, this is all being said after a year from inception of this thread. But, in a way..looking at these posts today,,is so much like Linden going back in time.
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Post by ellll »

If I may,

I would ask how many see, as I, that the whole series is a massive exercise in ethics? The issue of language doesn't exist, and no attempt was ever made to "fix" the issue of speech and language.

What language we do find of note, is demonstrated by the mind boggling vocabulary used, and the manipulation of many obscure terms into REALLY exciting usage..., not to mention poetic creation that at times is just simply, top notch...

In addition the time element is a matter of spacious feel for all time, to bring into focus the principles involved...; the ethical questions that are asked...the reason for the writer to exist.


Too many try to compare to others, from Conrad to Tolkien...or F.W. Dixon...a lost cause indeed...

This author fails many times in storyline, idea, direction....but.., just ONE experience with a section like the beginning of part two, with The Mahdoubt and Caerroil Wildwood and the return to Revelstone, is worth EVERY MOMENT spent in discerning the path of the story...for the story means little, but the wonderful "gems" that appear from the very first, 30 years or more ago, sing to the genius of this author, make no mistake...

We will wonder often and much, for what the real meanings of such encounters as the JHEHERRIN, or the Insequent, or the initial crime against person...., really mean, but only those willing to overlook the Fantasy, and seek the wonder, will ever answer.....

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Post by matrixman »

I've been working my way forward from the back pages (yes, like the Mahdoubt moving through time), so here I am at last on the front page. I didn't browse all the threads, but this is one of the best.

Reading the comments for and against FR was stimulating. They've helped me refine/reassess my own feelings about the book. Instead of just gushing out praise, let me say there were in fact some things I didn't like about FR.

I agree with the view that the first half of FR was generally more gripping than the second half. I agree that the "battle royale" was over the top, but I think that was intentional on SRD's part. The question for me is what point he was making in depicting such a strange battle. (That chapter dissection should be interesting.)

I also did not like how suddenly - and easily - the Demondim were killed off, though Lurch has his view on that issue in Dissecting. Yes, lurch, you do seem to be reading FR - and the Chrons in general - on a level different from the rest of us. And it's refreshing. :wink:

Those were the only major negative points for me, but negative they are. Those were the parts that left me the most frustrated with Donaldson, when I felt confused over what direction he was trying to take the story.

However, on the whole, FR was a mesmerizing read. The book's strengths outweigh its weaknesses. If ROTE made me eager for FR, then FR makes me even more eager for AATE.

I've gotten over the "time travel" quandaries. I think (or hope) I'm gaining a better grasp on the concept of time and time travel within the context of the story SRD is telling. I just don't want to be a reader that invokes scientific laws at every turn of a story to tear it apart, particularly a fantasy story of all things. Some enjoy that, and power to them, but I don't take much joy in that approach. Where the Chronicles are concerned, I want to comprehend "Donaldson's Laws" before anything else. Obviously, I don't expect full comprehension until the last page of The Last Dark is turned. (And even then, I'm sure there will still be mysteries left.)
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Post by ellll »

I agree in many ways with the writer matrixman. The issues so carefully revealed, even from the very first days of Lord Foul's Bane, are a lesson in complexity... And in hope...

Thanks for the excellent comments you have added to this strange and inescapeable journey we find ourselves caught in...

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Post by Farm Ur-Ted »

This book is weird; that's my first impression. I'm getting close to half-way through
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(Linden et. al. are in Melenkurion Skyweir).
For a while, it was reminding me a lot of the Elric stories I read earlier this year in the Stormbringer collection. It also reminds me a bit of the Malazan books. It almost seems like random stuff is happening like in those books, where a character slips into a warren, and you're reading it and are like WTF????
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I'm definitely more engaged now as they are nearing the Earthblood...
Can't wait 'til I finish this thing so I can actually read some of the threads in here. As it is, I had to read a few posts in this thread with my fingers covering my eyes.
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Post by Mysteweave »

I just finished reading FR last night. To be honest, it got to be quite a struggle, as did Runes in places.

However, I'm not going to pass judgment until I re-read them both. I didn't like the 2nd Chrons on the first read-though, I think I was annoyed that I had to waste precious TC time with Linden (:P) but on the second and subsequent read-throughs, I've come to love them as much, if not more than the 1st Chrons.

Back on topic, I think my first impression of FR (as it was with Runes) is that it's all a bit far-fetched. Yes, I know it's fantasy, but still! I'm finding the caesures and the insequent, not to mention the whole Esmer thing a little difficult to swallow.

Having said that, I LOVED the idea that the Theomach was placed as the Guardian of the One Tree by Berek and I positively glowed when the giants showed up! :D
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Post by Krazy Kat »

Hi All,

I've been unable to grasp the story of the last chronicles. I guess SRD has evolved as a writer since the publications of his previous books. He said something about that in his introduction to Reave the Just. But I've had difficulties latching on to his familiar style.

And yet, as Fatal Revenant was drawing to a close, the giants show up, just like they did in the Wounded Land.

Does anyone know or think that Lord Foul might be a giant. I'm quite new to Kevin's Watch and this may have been discussed before.

It somehow makes perfect sense, although very difficult to explain why. All the events that make it possible are contradicted by being chronicologically incorrect. Unless all the time loops are a way of explaining this?

The giants build Revelstone. Kevin enacts the Ritual of Desecration. The giants cross the Sunbirth Sea. Lord Foul gains the secret of longevity from Kasryn and grows a long white beard. Kevin grows up to be ten feet tall...ah! ok, see what I mean. I get tied up in a knot too easily. But wouldn't you be peeed off if you came back from your holidays to find hundreds of people living in your house.

As Ralph Wiggum sometimes says - my brain hurts!

I think I'll read some Enid Blyton for a while...
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Post by rdhopeca »

I am, admittedly, having a difficult time "attaching" to this group of Giants as I did in TWL. Not quite sure why yet, in fact I was going to go back and re-read the 2nd half of FR a bit more closely to see if I could get that feeling back.

Maybe it's because there are too many of them at the beginning...? In TWL there were only 4...the First, Pitchwife, Honninscrave, and Seadreamer. Easy to get to know until the end and the ship shows up and then you can expand.

Hard to say.
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Post by matrixman »

The appearance of the Giants in FR didn't pack the emotional wallop as it did in TWL, but that sneaky ol' Donaldson still caught me off guard. I was totally not expecting to see Giants at that point! :lol:
rdhopeca wrote:Maybe it's because there are too many of them at the beginning...? In TWL there were only 4...the First, Pitchwife, Honninscrave, and Seadreamer.
I think the party of the Search made a bigger impression because each member was so distinctly different from the other. Whereas the group of Giants in FR seemed fairly homogenous in character.
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Post by kevinswatch »

matrixman wrote:I think the party of the Search made a bigger impression because each member was so distinctly different from the other. Whereas the group of Giants in FR seemed fairly homogenous in character.
Bingo. While it's hard to beat the awesomeness that is Pitchwife, the First, Honnenscrave and Seadreamer, this just goes back to my one big complaint about the Last Chronicles. There simply very few interesting new characters (outside of, say, Stave, the Mahdoubt and the Harrow).

The fact that when SRD introduced the giants in FR we were given one real character (what's her face) and 10 clones is rather disappointing.

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Post by Krazy Kat »

Yeah, I had that impression to.

Revelstone seemed to be quite empty. I kept thinking, where is everybody!

Which lends itself to the inklings I get, that the way is being prepared for the return of the giants. They've been away for a long time and now they're coming home.

But the best bit for me in FR was the downpour on the mound. I need to go back and read it again. I'd like to find out what made Esmer finally decide to help the company.
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