Obama's Cabinet

[Cail]

He certainly does have a year, and that's cool. The problem I have is that the fanfare is about the prison being closed (which is a non-issue, just sounds good on the TV), not about the proper dealing with the prisoners.

[Cybrweez]

I can see your point. I guess I'm just saying its covered in 2 threads here, and I would have to say its not THAT important.

For instance, I think an Obama advisor saying white male workers should not receive stimulus jobs is more important. I'm surprised that is ignored and a non-issue of eventually closing a prison is beaten to death. Obviously importance is subjective, but I would think racism usually trumps prisons.

[Plissken]

Special interest groups are already lining up to get some bailout money.

How about this for responsibly spending the bailout money:

Among the funding measures included in the proposal are $25 million for new ATV trails; $400 million for the National Endowment for the Arts; $400 million for global warming research; $335 million for the Centers for Disease Control to combat sexually-transmitted diseases; and $650 million coupons to subsidize TV viewers for digital television conversion.

Huh? Don't most people already have their coupons? This has been been going on since at least November. Why is there still $650 Million being added for this?

'Cause it was under-funded by about that much.

[sindatur]

One of the problems with calling people "special interest groups" is that no two people will agree on what that term means. I for one think keeping people employed in the television industry is at least a defensible goal, as is scientific research and efforts to combat disease and to subsidize the arts.

And here's another thought--does anyone seriously expect Obama to perfect? More, that under his leadership suddenly the majority of Congress would be likewise not only morally without a stain but also imperious to mistakes? How realistic a goal is that?

Meanwhile, maybe just maybe some of our knee-jerk criticisms of what the government is trying to do in the face of a gigantic set of huge problems are wrong. Not all of them, but just maybe some of them. It is barely possible that we're not infallible either, and should examine the whole situation with a little more precision than jumping to conclusions based on a couple of popular news summaries.

Maybe.

I'm wondering how $650 million for the coupons is keeping television industry folks employed? Don't most people already have their coupons as the program began at least in November and has been advertised for about a whole year? My mom was the last person I know of who jumped on the wagon, and she finally has her coupon. Plus, most people I know already have cable or Satellite TV, can there really be still 32 million homes who still need to have it dealt with and financed?

[Cail]

For instance, I think an Obama advisor saying white male workers should not receive stimulus jobs is more important. I'm surprised that is ignored and a non-issue of eventually closing a prison is beaten to death. Obviously importance is subjective, but I would think racism usually trumps prisons.

Oh I agree, that's a huge issue and I'm surprised that it's not getting more press.

Actually, no I'm not.

[aliantha]

On the TV coupons: There's a philosophical answer, and there's a practical answer.

The philosophical answer: The gummint has a 70-plus-year history of providing (through the FCC) free access to TV programming over the airwaves. Contrary to popular belief here, not everybody in the country has cable. (For instance, me. ) Some folks refuse to get cable (don't like their monopolistic provider (check!), don't like paying for a billion channels to get the three or four they'll actually watch (check!), etc.) and some honestly can't afford it. Next month, all those folks will have instantly obsolete equipment. The gummint feels responsible for this, so it set up the voucher program.

Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, a lot of people waited until the last minute to request a voucher. The voucher fulfillment system was never very efficient to begin with (when I applied for one in late October, it took two weeks for them to get one in the mail to me -- contrast that with how quickly your bank can turn around your request for a debit card). Now, with the deadline looming, the system is swamped. And, yeah, the money's running out.

The practical answer: You've heard of TV being the opiate of the masses? *No*body wants all those poor people to be without their fix. Why, people would riot in the streets! Looting and whatnot! It would be terrible!

[sindatur]

On the TV coupons: There's a philosophical answer, and there's a practical answer.

The philosophical answer: The gummint has a 70-plus-year history of providing (through the FCC) free access to TV programming over the airwaves. Contrary to popular belief here, not everybody in the country has cable. (For instance, me. ) Some folks refuse to get cable (don't like their monopolistic provider (check!), don't like paying for a billion channels to get the three or four they'll actually watch (check!), etc.) and some honestly can't afford it. Next month, all those folks will have instantly obsolete equipment. The gummint feels responsible for this, so it set up the voucher program.



Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, a lot of people waited until the last minute to request a voucher. The voucher fulfillment system was never very efficient to begin with (when I applied for one in late October, it took two weeks for them to get one in the mail to me -- contrast that with how quickly your bank can turn around your request for a debit card). Now, with the deadline looming, the system is swamped. And, yeah, the money's running out.

The practical answer: You've heard of TV being the opiate of the masses? *No*body wants all those poor people to be without their fix. Why, people would riot in the streets! Looting and whatnot! It would be terrible!

The vouchers are only for $20. So that means there's still 32.5 million households without vouchers? That seems like an awful lot still to be dealt with. I wouldn't expect much more than that number of households to be without Cable or Satelite, let alone still waiting for vouchers?

[Cagliostro]

The vouchers are only for $20. So that means there's still 32.5 million households without vouchers? That seems like an awful lot still to be dealt with. I wouldn't expect much more than that number of households to be without Cable or Satelite, let alone still waiting for vouchers?

Actually, they were for $40, at least the ones I picked up. You can request up to two, and I got two. We have two tv's and figured if that covered the cost of the boxes, we'd pick up two. Well, previous to me requesting the coupon back at the end of October, at Target they were a little cheaper than when I looked for them at the beginning of December by the time I got the coupon. So I had to pay $10, which isn't a big deal. But I figured there was no reason to pick up an extra, so I didn't. A friend of my wife who is known for not being on the ball needed one, so we gave the other coupon to him in January. He was not able to find a box at the time, but I suspect he's picked one up since then.
And yes, I've shaved most of my tv watching down to Lost and 30 Rock. Although I do watch a heap of DVDs. A Netflix subscription is a lot cheaper than a cable subscription, and if you pay for some kind of faster internet, you can watch a lot of tv online. I guess it is all about patience, as every show goes onto DVD these days, except for some from the past that they have not added (like Relativity and Parker Lewis, dammit!).
While I'm not a tv snob like my wife, and actually think there are good shows on, I don't need to pay for it, and watching on DVD or sites like hulu.com, I don't have to wait through the damn commercials either (well, hulu does have commercials, but only one during the usual break). And Netflix online is free for now, but limited in what you can watch. It works like a charm for me. I'm getting caught up on Doctor Who at last.

What I'm objecting to is the talk of dropping a mail day from the USPS. I think it is a plot from Netflix to screw over their users. First "throttling," now getting the post office to drop a day. Bastards!

Oh, and one last complaint - I hate this digital system. If there is a storm, or the channel just doesn't come in especially well, there was occasionally static, but you could at least hear and make out pretty well what was on the screen. Now, you get weird blocks and the sound cuts out entirely. I shake my cane at these tech-heads!

[sindatur]

Oh really? I thought it was limited to 1 per person, and once you made a request, you couldn't make a second request, wether it showed up or not. Also, I thought the coupons for $20, to cover half of the $40 box cost? That's what I've heard from my mom, and a neighbor, who are the only folks I know without cable or satellite.

[Cagliostro]

Well, my personal experience as a person without cable or satellite was that the boxes I found were $50, and I was asked if I wanted one or two coupons for $40. Maybe I lucked out since I did it early-ish.

Aliantha, what was your experience?

[Rawedge Rim]

Oh really? I thought it was limited to 1 per person, and once you made a request, you couldn't make a second request, wether it showed up or not. Also, I thought the coupons for $20, to cover half of the $40 box cost? That's what I've heard from my mom, and a neighbor, who are the only folks I know without cable or satellite.

My area of expertise; 2 coupons per household, reduces the cost by $40 on eligible converter boxes. Expire 90 days of issue date, no refunds, no reissue.

[Cail]

Parker Lewis rocked!

I completely understand why some people don't have cable. That's their choice. For those who can't afford it....Why is that the taxpayer's responsibility?

I know we're getting off the range here, but it was a big enough stretch for Obama to call health care a right (it isn't), but now Wheel of Fortune is to? I'm sorry, but if someone couldn't have saved up the $40 or $50 over the last two years since this switchover was announced, then maybe they ought to be doing something other than watching TV.

[Zarathustra]

I know we're getting off the range here, but it was a big enough stretch for Obama to call health care a right (it isn't), but now Wheel of Fortune is to? I'm sorry, but if someone couldn't have saved up the $40 or $50 over the last two years since this switchover was announced, then maybe they ought to be doing something other than watching TV.

You're right. Why is it my responsibility to pay for my neighbor's entertainment?

[The Laughing Man]

As someone who has personally hugely benefitted from the wealth of world class educational content on Public TV from childhood, coupled with the fact that most of these people requesting boxes are too poor to afford cable or satellite, I find it to be a vital public service initiative. Not to mention the fact that it was the govt that passed the law requiring all broadcasts to be in digital, it wouldn't really seem fair to these people to have to cough up some dough they don't have just to watch TV, just because of the govt.

For instance, I think an Obama advisor saying white male workers should not receive stimulus jobs is more important.

With an overall non-white unemployment rate at least double that of whites in any economy, "at least a 20 percent quota for non-white workers who may benefit from the stimulus package" doesn't seem all that unreasonable. When employment rates are racially equal is when we can stop funding racially based initiatives, IMO.

[Cail]

But they're not too poor to own a TV. Sorry, TV's nice, but the government has no reason to pay for anyone to watch it.

People benefit from regular sex as well, but I don't see the government handing out hooker coupons.

Edit- To be clear, I have nothing against public television. Everyone loves Sesame Street and the Electric Company. That's not the issue. The issue is that the conversion to digital was announced over two years ago, and a converter is no more than $50. I find it incredibly hard to believe that there are people who couldn't budget $2 a month for a converter box.

But taking all that into account, the government is still providing the free service. The government has no responsibility to provide the means to receive it. Should they give out coupons for free TVs for those who can't afford them?

[Plissken]

Because the Government has already made billions auctioning off the analog signals, and promised to provide vouchers if it was allowed to do so?

[Cail]

Actually, they offered to. Did they promise to? Link?

And if in fact they did promise to (which I don't believe they did), why on Earth should they have done so?

[Plissken]

Again, because they made billions auctioning off the public's airwaves, and got the bill to do so approved by promising to provide these coupons.

[Zarathustra]

I agree with you on principle, Cail. But if people spent their own money on TVs based on a current government service, and the government then changes that service in such a way that it makes their purchase useless, then I guess there is nothing wrong with the government using profits from those auctions (not tax dollars) to get people back up to speed.

TV does help the economy. Advertising drives consumer spending. Think of it as an information stimulus package.

(And hooker coupons probably isn't a bad idea, either . . . )

[Cail]

Again, because they made billions auctioning off the public's airwaves, and got the bill to do so approved by promising to provide these coupons.

Do you have a link for that, or are you guessing? Seriously.

If the government promised to do it, that's one thing, but I don't believe they did.