Find the Croyel

[iQuestor]

Xar wrote:

Then again, there might also be a chance, however slim, that Covenant himself bargained with one... "Those who bargain for life or might": Covenant might have bargained his return from the grave, which could or could not have happened, and could or could not be complete (see the "fractured Covenant" hypothesis).

After his experiences with Kaseryn, I dont think he would do that, even to return from the dead.

[callback]

Frankly, I doubt that Covenant would even be that anxious to return from the dead. I suspect that any "resurrection" was at least against his better judgement if not his will, and that it was accompanied by a lot of "Hellfire"s and "Bloody damnation"s.

[Prover of Life]

What if the Elohim..kastenessen (sp) made the bargain?

[Jerico]

They could have control of more than one set of beings. The Demondin come to mind...It would be very hard to spot a Croyel mixed in with them! And we have not seen all of the players yet!!

[Cmdr_Floyd]

Hasn't SD hinted that Old Lords, the Viles, Demondim etc are to appear in later volumes??

[Warmark]

The quote is something like this i think :

''The entire history of the Land will become relevent to the present.''

Or something similar to that. So yea, it sounds like they might make an appearence.

[Relayer]

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but since we're speculating about characters and the history of the Land, this comparison sprang to mind...

The Real Story was mostly about Angus and Morn (and Nick), and primarily took place on station and on Angus' ship. Then, as the series progressed, it pulled back and became galactic in scope as we got to see the "gods" and conflicts behind the "real story"...

Maybe this widening the scope is what SRD has in mind. He's laid the framework for 7 books; we have lots of stories about the Creation, the Land's past, other legendary characters. But we've almost always seen the story from "down in the trenches" - through Covenant, Linden, and Troy (and of course the wonderful Mhoram chapters ). In the same way as when we got to see the inner workings of Warden, Hashi, and Holt, imagine really getting into the bigger picture of the Land's universe and reading chapters from the POV of the Creator... Elohim... Ravers... Old Lords... the Dead... even Foul

[callback]

SRD certainly isn't above developing a throwaway bit of backstory into a featured part of the plot. He did it with the Elohim and the Sandgorgons in the second series, and he is already doing it with the Demondim in the Last Chronicles.

Back to the original topic, I've been wondering what a person actually gets when they bargain with a croyel. Do they get knowledge or power or influence over others? (The Arguleh suggests the third and possibly the first, the Kemper suggests some combination of the first and the second.)

Also, what does a croyel get in return other than a chance to exercise it's malevolence?

Finally, could or would a croyel bargain with a person with severe autism?

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I always hated SRDs having a croyel as the main bad guy in OT. The Croyel concept is way too similiar to a Raver and his powers, and at least in the 2nd Chrons has nothing to do with Foul.

[Reisheiruhime]

I disagree that the croyel have naught to do with Foul. Wasn't it Foul who threw all the darkness into the Creation? The story of the beginning would have it thought that Foul was responsible for ALL the icky stuff in the world. Not just the Land, but the world. So, in theory that leaves a whole world of bad guys, banes, and creepy crawlies.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I disagree that the croyel have naught to do with Foul. Wasn't it Foul who threw all the darkness into the Creation? The story of the beginning would have it thought that Foul was responsible for ALL the icky stuff in the world. Not just the Land, but the world. So, in theory that leaves a whole world of bad guys, banes, and creepy crawlies.

That's thematics, not story or plot, which was very weak in the 2nd Chrons, IMHO.

[Reisheiruhime]

Plotwise, yes, the 2nd chrons are very weak. Apart from one or two major events, at times TOT seemed merely a pleasure jaunt to show us that there really is land outside the Land. That's if you're looking for plot, however. And it looks a little more like backstory than thematics. Unfortunately, I don't pick out plot or theme. I read holistically, at least with the chrons. I have to, for them to make sense. Backstory is key, for me. All the way to Creation itself, if necessary.