Woman has Octuplets, after having 6 others en vitro

[Rawedge Rim]

But if she had a screw loose, then why was she allowed to have more children implanted into her at the public expense?

Good question. Who's the official in charge of "allowing" children?

How about the accountant when the young woman was asked "How are you going to pay for this?"

I don't know where you're going with this. What accountant? (I thinking your glossing over details too much here.)

She had the money for the procedure (no?). She didn't get it from public assistance AFAICT.

Should a medical professional say "I'm going to turn you away even though you qualify medically for this procedure and even though you can pay me, because I disagree with the way you use public assistance money?"

I really think we don't want doctors judging people's lifestyles, it's not their job and it endangers peoples lives.

www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_styl ... 627531.ece

Octuplets’ mother wants Oprah to turn her into a $2m TV star

John Harlow, Los Angeles
THE single mother of octuplets born in California last week is seeking $2m (£1.37m) from media interviews and commercial sponsorship to help pay the cost of raising the children.

Nadya Suleman, 33, plans a career as a television childcare expert after it emerged last week that she already had six children before giving birth on Monday. She now has 14 below the age of eight.

Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week — media mogul Oprah Winfrey, and Diane Sawyer, who presents Good Morning America.

Her family has told agents she needs cash from deals such as nappy sponsorship — she will get through 250 a week in the next few months — and the agents will gauge public reaction to her story.

Her earning power, though, could be diminished by a growing ethical and medical controversy. Experts believe that the unnamed fertility specialists who gave her in vitro fertilisation (IVF) should not have implanted so many embryos, and in choosing to carry all eight to term, Suleman ignored guidelines, risking both their health and her own.

US public reaction has been mixed: many have asked how an unemployed single mother can raise 14 children, as her first six have already strained the family budget. Angela and Ed Suleman, Nadya’s parents,bought her a two-bedroom bungalow in the suburb of Whittier in March 2007, but soon after got into debt and had to leave their own home.

They filed for bankruptcy and moved in with their daughter and grandchildren. Last week her father said he would return to his native Iraq to work as a translator and driver.

Angela Suleman, who is caring for the first six children — one of whom is autistic — while her daughter is in hospital, said yesterday that she had consulted a psychologist over Nadya’s “obsession with children”.

Nadya Suleman, who describes herself as a “professional student” living off education grants and parental money, broke up with her boyfriend before the birth of her first child seven years ago.

The identity of the octuplets’ father remains unknown, but local reports suggest they were conceived with frozen sperm donated by a friend she met while working at a fertility clinic. He is the father of her twins, born two years ago.

Michael Tucker of the Georgia Reproductive Clinic, Atlanta, said Suleman’s story stunned him. “We are policed by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, which frowns upon implanting more than two or three embryos at a time. It is remarkable that any practitioner would undertake such a practice.”

The babies, born nine weeks prematurely by C-section, [/red]attended to by 46 medical staff, who expected seven babies. When the eighth — a boy — appeared, doctors were “confounded”.

Angela Suleman said her daughter was advised to terminate some of the embryos in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy for the sake of her health, but she refused because she did not know how to make such a life-or-death decision.

“She doesn’t have any more, so it’s over now. It has to be,” said the grandmother.

Now where in all of this did you see where Ms. Suliman paid for any of the children she now has? Her parents beggered themselves helping her, and in return, she has 8 more, and expects others to pay for them.

As I said, when asked how she was gonna pay for them, the hospital should have asked for payment up front.

Last I heard, this was probably gonna cost the already cash strapped California somewhere between 1.5 to 3.5 million.

[aliantha]

No, no! Didn't you read the BBC article? Oprah's gonna get her a nappy endorsement!

[wayfriend]

RR: nothing in your post shows that she didn't pay for the treatment at the clinic. Otherwise, we all get that she's broke, kay?

Meanwhile, I find it STUNNING that this item of news, featuring MORE mendacity, actual CRIMINAL behavior, and MORE money stolen from taxpayers, garners LESS attention.

Which sorta proves we have a hate problem that has nothing to do with tax money, don't it? Poor people offend us doing things that don't when wealthy people do them.

Florida professor, wife accused of stealing money from NASA

(CNN) -- Federal authorities raided the office of a University of Florida professor on Wednesday who, along with his wife, is suspected of defrauding NASA.

The FBI searched the school's Innovative Nuclear Space Power and Propulsion Institute, founded by Samim Anghaie, and his office on campus, said university spokesman Steve Orlando. Anghaie is a professor of radiological engineering.

FBI spokesman Jeff Westcott would only confirm the searches on campus, referring all questions to the U.S. attorney's office. Calls to the U.S. attorney's office were not returned Wednesday.

According to an affidavit filed February 19, investigators from the FBI and NASA said that since 1999, the government has awarded 13 contracts to the couple's company, New Era Technology Inc. (NETECH), and deposited $3.4 million into the company's corporate account. Investigators allege they diverted much of the money from the corporate account into personal accounts to buy cars and property.

According to NETECH's Web site, the company was established in 1988 as a research and development firm to perform "high-tech, cutting edge research." It boasts "a highly skilled staff of research scientists, engineers, and physicists" and lists NASA, the Department of Defense and the Department of Energy among its employers.

Anghaie's wife, Sousan, is president of NETECH, which is listed under the couple's residential address in Gainesville, according to court documents. The couple have two sons; Hamid, 28, and Ali, 31.

Since 2001, Hamid Anghaie, who lives in Tampa, has been director and vice president of the company. Before Hamid took over, his father had the post, according to court documents.

Ali Anghaie, who lives in Manchester, Connecticut, works for an aerospace firm, Pratt & Whitney, also listed among NETECH's employers.

Calls to the home of Samim and Sousan Anghaie were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Authorities said the Anghaies took advantage of two federal grant programs set up to stimulate technological innovation in the private sector and strengthen the role of small businesses.

Under the NETECH name, they "submitted multiple fraudulent certified contract proposals to NASA, in order to receive the maximum funding for proposed research contracts," according to court documents.

The couple allegedly submitted fraudulent invoices to reimburse payments to "alleged employees," which ultimately resulted in the government overpaying the company, the documents say.

The money was allegedly diverted to personal accounts through the intentional overpayment of employees, including Samim Anghaie, or the payments made to "illegitimate" employees, including the two sons, according to the documents.

Samim Anghaie, who has worked for the University of Florida for nearly 30 years, has been placed on administrative leave with pay, Orlando said.

[Cail]

Nice bait-and-switch. That has nothing to do with a woman receiving public assistance and having 14 kids.

[wayfriend]

I'll explain it plainer: why are people more outraged over a woman having 14 kids on public assistance than someone defrauding the government for millions? Hint: it's a question about a woman having 14 kids on public assistance.

[Cail]

I can't seem to find the thread you started about that couple, nor can I find any posts supporting their actions.

And since CNN only posted that article 9 hours ago, it's not really a fair comparison at all, is it.

[Rawedge Rim]

RR: nothing in your post shows that she didn't pay for the treatment at the clinic. Otherwise, we all get that she's broke, kay?

Meanwhile, I find it STUNNING that this item of news, featuring MORE mendacity, actual CRIMINAL behavior, and MORE money stolen from taxpayers, garners LESS attention.

Which sorta proves we have a hate problem that has nothing to do with tax money, don't it? Poor people offend us doing things that don't when wealthy people do them.

Florida professor, wife accused of stealing money from NASA

(CNN) -- Federal authorities raided the office of a University of Florida professor on Wednesday who, along with his wife, is suspected of defrauding NASA.

The FBI searched the school's Innovative Nuclear Space Power and Propulsion Institute, founded by Samim Anghaie, and his office on campus, said university spokesman Steve Orlando. Anghaie is a professor of radiological engineering.

FBI spokesman Jeff Westcott would only confirm the searches on campus, referring all questions to the U.S. attorney's office. Calls to the U.S. attorney's office were not returned Wednesday.

According to an affidavit filed February 19, investigators from the FBI and NASA said that since 1999, the government has awarded 13 contracts to the couple's company, New Era Technology Inc. (NETECH), and deposited $3.4 million into the company's corporate account. Investigators allege they diverted much of the money from the corporate account into personal accounts to buy cars and property.

According to NETECH's Web site, the company was established in 1988 as a research and development firm to perform "high-tech, cutting edge research." It boasts "a highly skilled staff of research scientists, engineers, and physicists" and lists NASA, the Department of Defense and the Department of Energy among its employers.

Anghaie's wife, Sousan, is president of NETECH, which is listed under the couple's residential address in Gainesville, according to court documents. The couple have two sons; Hamid, 28, and Ali, 31.

Since 2001, Hamid Anghaie, who lives in Tampa, has been director and vice president of the company. Before Hamid took over, his father had the post, according to court documents.

Ali Anghaie, who lives in Manchester, Connecticut, works for an aerospace firm, Pratt & Whitney, also listed among NETECH's employers.

Calls to the home of Samim and Sousan Anghaie were not immediately returned Wednesday.

Authorities said the Anghaies took advantage of two federal grant programs set up to stimulate technological innovation in the private sector and strengthen the role of small businesses.

Under the NETECH name, they "submitted multiple fraudulent certified contract proposals to NASA, in order to receive the maximum funding for proposed research contracts," according to court documents.

The couple allegedly submitted fraudulent invoices to reimburse payments to "alleged employees," which ultimately resulted in the government overpaying the company, the documents say.

The money was allegedly diverted to personal accounts through the intentional overpayment of employees, including Samim Anghaie, or the payments made to "illegitimate" employees, including the two sons, according to the documents.

Samim Anghaie, who has worked for the University of Florida for nearly 30 years, has been placed on administrative leave with pay, Orlando said.

Jeez Wayfriend, for the love of God, please tell me where an unemployeed woman who is living on student loans gets the money for 1.5 to 3.5 million dollars? Her parents are broke. And that 1.5 to 3.5 is just for now, how about the future, when those kids are growing up.

Secondly, why do you think that I feel less bad about someone making off with millions than I do about a woman with 6 kids, who decided that 8 more on the public dollar would be even better?

[wayfriend]

Still not seeing much outrage about these grant fraud people. I'm searching the web, too ... nuthin.

So my hypothesis, that people get more outraged about poor people gaming public assistance for thousands of dollars, than they are about white collar criminals stealing millions from the government, hasn't been disproven yet.

(RR: [edit: never mind, I looked the darn thing up myself.] CBS News wrote: Suleman's mother told CBS News Nadya paid for in vitro fertilization with money from a legal settlement after a work accident.

You seem to be confusing the cost for fertility treatment with the cost for caring for the newborn children. The former is the only time where anyone like an "accountant" asks if you can pay for it. And it wasn't at the public's expense when that occurred. So there doesn't seem to any person who "allowed" this to happen.)

[sindatur]

Still not seeing much outrage about these grant fraud people. I'm searching the web, too ... nuthin.

So my hypothesis, that people get more outraged about poor people gaming public assistance for thousands of dollars, than they are about white collar criminals stealing millions from the government, hasn't been disproven yet.

(RR: I said I don't know ... neither do you ... so why beat me up about it? Why don't you go and look up where she got the money? Let us know.)

The public can't be outraged until the news organizations broadcast the information. As others have suggested, if you start a thread, we'll all jump on the "rage" over the grants along with you. Just because we'll be outraged over the grants issue, doesn't mean we'll suddenly be OK with the Octuplet mom, though.

[wayfriend]

Sindatur: the whole point I am making is that no one is starting a thread to express their outrage. It'd defeat the purpose if I started such a thread.

Nor is there any rage-filled comments section attached to any news story I can find.

[sindatur]

Sindatur: the whole point I am making is that no one is starting a thread to express their outrage. It'd defeat the purpose if I started such a thread.

Nor is there any rage-filled comments section attached to any news story I can find.

But, if the media isn't broadcasting the grant scam, how can anyone be prompted to start a thread? We can only debate/respond to things we know about, and the media isn't covering that. They're covering teh Octuplet mom in excess to glamorize it, which is why it's gotten responses of rage.

I've heard nothing of the grant scam, aside from your comments, and I believe you linked an article.

[Cail]

Wayfriend, are you upset about this grant scam? If so, start a thread about it. But it's more than a little disingenuous to toss it into another thread then complain that there's no outrage over it. This is the kind of thing that historically draws universal scorn in here, so it's not like anyone's going to defend the guy.

I'll also note that there hasn't been a single news hit on Google for "Samim Anghaie" (the principal) since 2/26, which leads me to believe that there may not be much to this.

[wayfriend]

But, if the media isn't broadcasting the grant scam, how can anyone be prompted to start a thread?

That's exactly my point, Sindatur. The media didn't jump all over this story. No one's heard about it. If the media covers things based on interest, then this expresses a complete disinterest.

This has nothing to do with the NASA story per se. I could easily find another dozen stories about people abusing or stealing taxpayer money. With nowhere near the coverage of this octuplet mom.

Why does the media jump all over the octuplets mom, but not all over other stories of people defrauding taxpayers? Why are there now even stories about the stories about the octuplet mom? Why are there now stories about the level of outrage against the octuplet mom, and people offering explanations for the outrage against the octuplet mom?

While other stories, containing more intention to harm taxpayers, for larger amounts of money, get far less attention? (Remember, when this story broke, the only thing we new she was guilty of was getting food stamps for her children, and yet the story exploded nonetheless.)

Look - saying the octuplet mom went too far is a slam dunk. It's such a slam dunk its almost lame to write about it. It's not like you're going out on a limb to have that position. It's not like you're demonstrating any kind of complex principle. It's as difficult as stealing candy from a baby.

And yet sooooo many people want to stick there nose in and express their outrage.

That's the only fascinating part of this whole story! In my opinion, anyway.

Are we all just so happy to find someone we're morally superior to that we have to crow about it? Are we like monkeys, such that we have to have someone lower in the pecking order to slap every now and then, to make ourselves feel better?

As RawEdge Rim points out, people are actually going out of their way to investigate this woman, finding out what she's up to. Going out of their way to provide the figures for the hospital bill, so that we can be more outraged.

Throwing feul on the fire.

Why do we need such a big fire? Who wants it? What are they trying to accomplish making the fire so big?

We can't even figure out who we're supposed to be mad AT!!!!

People here say this woman should not have been allowed to have those kids. But there's no one in charge of allowing kids!

People complain about the hospital bill! Should the hospital not do everything to save those premature children, who aren't to blame for any of this?

When I see a lot of directionless and/or ill-directed anger, I get worried. When I see that there're people feuling that anger intentionally, I get more worried.

What is the political angle behind all of this.

[Brother Charn]

The NASA-fraud example, at a quick glance, appears to be someone getting caught for doing something illegal.

Octomom, while she can be universally reviled for being a fool, adding to the burden on society, being a delusionally bad parent for thinking she can take adequate care of all those kids, etc.... as far as we know, she did nothing illegal.

IMHO, the hubbub is over whether we can somehow make it illegal or otherwise actively discourage nuts like she from so obviously and egregiously abusing the public assistance system -- that, and it is a pretty amazing story, sort of a train-wreck of irresponsible procreation.

[sindatur]

But, if the media isn't broadcasting the grant scam, how can anyone be prompted to start a thread?

That's exactly my point, Sindatur. The media didn't jump all over this story. No one's heard about it. If the media covers things based on interest, then this expresses a complete disinterest.

This has nothing to do with the NASA story per se. I could easily find another dozen stories about people abusing or stealing taxpayer money. With nowhere near the coverage of this octuplet mom.

Why does the media jump all over the octuplets mom, but not all over other stories of people defrauding taxpayers? Why are there now even stories about the stories about the octuplet mom? Why are there now stories about the level of outrage against the octuplet mom, and people offering explanations for the outrage against the octuplet mom?

While other stories, containing more intention to harm taxpayers, for larger amounts of money, get far less attention? (Remember, when this story broke, the only thing we new she was guilty of was getting food stamps for her children, and yet the story exploded nonetheless.)

Look - saying the octuplet mom went too far is a slam dunk. It's such a slam dunk its almost lame to write about it. It's not like you're going out on a limb to have that position. It's not like you're demonstrating any kind of complex principle. It's as difficult as stealing candy from a baby.

And yet sooooo many people want to stick there nose in and express their outrage.

That's the only fascinating part of this whole story! In my opinion, anyway.

Are we all just so happy to find someone we're morally superior to that we have to crow about it? Are we like monkeys, such that we have to have someone lower in the pecking order to slap every now and then, to make ourselves feel better?

As RawEdge Rim points out, people are actually going out of their way to investigate this woman, finding out what she's up to. Going out of their way to provide the figures for the hospital bill, so that we can be more outraged.

Throwing feul on the fire.

Why do we need such a big fire? Who wants it? What are they trying to accomplish making the fire so big?

We can't even figure out who we're supposed to be mad AT!!!!

People here say this woman should not have been allowed to have those kids. But there's no one in charge of allowing kids!

People complain about the hospital bill! Should the hospital not do everything to save those premature children, who aren't to blame for any of this?

When I see a lot of directionless and/or ill-directed anger, I get worried. When I see that there're people feuling that anger intentionally, I get more worried.

What is the political angle behind all of this.

But we can't control what the media puts out. As I said if the media was crowing about these other stories, we would be arguing against them?

Remember this is the media who showed more than just a little bias in wanting Barack Obama elected, so it's your political allies who aren't getting on it. The Hard Right Republican's allies in the media (Hannity, Rush, et al) aren't going to raising it up because it's white collar crime, that's to be expected. But for you to be upset at a lack of outrage for these stories because your own political allies in the media aren't promoting them doesn't make any sense to me.

[wayfriend]

But for you to be upset at a lack of outrage for these stories because your own political allies in the media aren't promoting them doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm not upset at the lack of outrage. I am not upset about anything. Can you please be more careful with your accusations?

I said, in every way I know how, that I am wondering why one story gets outrage while another doesn't. I have even stated quite clearly that this has nothing to do with the NASA story per se. If you don't understand what I am discussing, then there's nothing left I can try to do.

I'm not going to retreat into a conspiracy theory which, if you accept it, means no information from anywhere can be believed, and so there's no point in speculation about anything.

All you have to do is look, and you can see that it's not "the media" that dictates this. Rage against octomom fills user forums, comments sections of stories, blogs, call-in shows, chat rooms, etc. I suppose you can assume the media conspiracy covers these outlets as well - what can I do.

"octuplets outrage" is now even a search hint in Google!

The Hard Right Republican's allies in the media (Hannity, Rush, et al) aren't going to raising it up because it's white collar crime, that's to be expected.

Are you suggesting then that octomom, who is pushed by these channels, is pushed because it is not white collar? That this is, in other words, class warfare against the poor?

[sindatur]

But for you to be upset at a lack of outrage for these stories because your own political allies in the media aren't promoting them doesn't make any sense to me.

I'm not upset at the lack of outrage. I am not upset about anything. Can you please be more careful with your accusations?

I said, in every way I know how, that I am wondering why one story gets outrage while another doesn't. I have even stated quite clearly that this has nothing to do with the NASA story per se. If you don't understand what I am discussing, then there's nothing left I can try to do.

I'm not going to retreat into a conspiracy theory which, if you accept it, means no information from anywhere can be believed, and so there's no point in speculation about anything.

All you have to do is look, and you can see that it's not "the media" that dictates this. Rage against octomom fills user forums, comments sections of stories, blogs, call-in shows, chat rooms, etc. I suppose you can assume the media conspiracy covers these outlets as well - what can I do.

"octuplets outrage" is now even a search hint in Google!

The Hard Right Republican's allies in the media (Hannity, Rush, et al) aren't going to raising it up because it's white collar crime, that's to be expected.

Are you suggesting then that octomom, who is pushed by these channels, is pushed because it is not white collar? That this is, in other words, class warfare against the poor?

Again, if the Media is not broadcasting it, there will be no one talking about it, because no one knows about it. Likewise, if the Media is filling the airwaves with the OctoMom story, the public debate will be filled with opinions on that story. I'm not suggesting any kind of conspiracy, or suggesting the Media controls blogs, I'm only saying people will be discussing/debating what the media airs.

You ask me to be careful about making accusations, which I haven't done, and then you turn around and accuse me of propelling a conspiracy of the media being involved in promoting class warfare? I said nothing of the sort, the media is pushing the OctoMom story, because people latched onto it, and are discussing it, therefore it promotes ratings. I am indeed accusing the Media of pushing stories they feel will generate ratings, rather than pushing the news they believe is neccessary for the country to hear. I also will admit to believing that the media outlets aren't going to go out of their to push new stories that no one has heard if it makes their individual political ideology look bad (IE: the reason I said you can't expect the Conservative media to start the rampage against the Nasa scam is because it reflects poorly on their political ideology, but, that doesn't mean the less conservative media is propelling the OctoMom story as class warfare)

[wayfriend]

and then you turn around and accuse me of propelling a conspiracy of the media being involved in promoting class warfare?

If you can show me where that was done, I will clarify or retract.

Anyway,

You've said why you think the NASA story isn't pushed. Have you any suggestions why the octuplet mom IS pushed? Is there an ideology that it serves?

[sindatur]

and then you turn around and accuse me of propelling a conspiracy of the media being involved in promoting class warfare?

If you can show me where that was done, I will clarify or retract.

Anyway,

You've said why you think the NASA story isn't pushed. Have you any suggestions why the octuplet mom IS pushed? Is there an ideology that it serves?

Yea, didn't I express it clearly in my post? It's being talked about, therefore the media see ratings dollar signs and pushes it all the more.

[Cail]

I'll give you a pretty decent reason that the media isn't covering the so-called NASA scandal (which there are still no new news hits about). No one cares. People tune in for bizarre human interest stories because that sort of story makes them feel better about their own lives. The government is (and has) given away hundreds of billions of dollars to political cronies and poorly run financial institutions. If there's anything to this NASA thing, we're probably talking about a few hundred thousand dollars. Big freakin' deal. Sure, if there's anything to is, then the thieves ought to be punished, but in the grand scheme of everything else going on right now, it's small potatoes.

Now, if it was a 25 year old blond with big tits who was accused of the theft........