Runes, Part 2, Chapter 11 - The Masters of the Land

[Zarathustra]

But there's a crucial difference . . . Though for SRD's purposes your point may be right.

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. Not a isomorphic mapping of Kelenbhrabanal’s fate onto Covenant's, but rather a loose association of themes, and a loose interpretation of the word, "betray."

However, the more I think about it, the more I believe I was over-thinking it. I believe Wayfriend is right that this refers to Joan (and probably Linden, too). I just keep trying to fit Kelenbhrabanal’s story onto Covenant's "solution" at the end of WGW. I can't help but think that this horse's story was a foreshadow of an unexpected failure out of that apparent victory.

Wayfriend, your quote from TWL is indeed perfect. That has to be where the line came from. I grabbed my copy of TWL when making my post above, but I didn't stumble upon that quote. Good job. I think we're saying the same thing, in the end, even if we use different parts of TWL to make our point. The innocent (and the ignorant) are the people of the Land, not the Masters. And this innocence is something undesirable, ineffective.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

I wasn't convinced. Why would the Masters let Anele go just because they show him that the Stone can talk? As long as he's on the rock in Revelstone, he doesn't seem to get possessed by would be Arch of Time breakers or fire breathing watsawhozits, so wouldn't they make sure he stayed there?

...and I also thought the Masters would be a little more moved by what the Ranyhyn thought of them, even if they didn't "share" the experience second hand.

[jacob Raver, sinTempter]

It's Mahrtiir, actually - the terms 'sleepless ones' and 'Bloodguard' are, at least to the Ramen, derogatory. In short, the Ramen hate the Haruchai and constantly remind them of their broken Vow and failed fidelity.

That may be, but it didn't feel that way to me, it seemed present tense.

[Loresraat]

I've got a question here. When Linden is just waking up, she thinks she hears Covenant. He's calling her name repeatedly, she blames him for "shining a flashlight in her eyes" and she hears thumps. Now, that could simply be the sunlight and Liand's attempts to rouse her, but the flashlight reference really makes me wonder: could the name/lights/thumps also be the shadow of paramedics on the scene in the real world, making an attempt to recussitate her? Is there an implication that she isn't 100% guaranteed dead in the end?

[wayfriend]

Can you pinpoint the scene more clearly? Liand doesn't rouse Linden in the stowndown, and there's no mention of a flashlight, as far as I can tell.

She was carrying a flashlight, quite prominently, when she met Roger on the slab of rock, just before being summoned. She threw it at Roger, and missed.

[Savor Dam]

Loresraat is referring to the scene at the very beginning of Part 2, Chapter 11, when Linden is waking in her room in Revelstone, She thinks she hears Covenant calling her repeatedly.

Nevertheless he continued to insist. For reasons which she could not explain, he shone a flashlight into her eyes. He commanded an illumination which pierced her, made her squirm.

Of course, we learn in the next paragraph that it is Liand calling her from outside the door to her room.

I had not considered Loresraat's interpretation before, but the flashlight reference could be an indication of Linden's subconcious awareness of *someone* back in real life trying to save her. Clearly, there are no flashlights in the land...unless carried there by one of the other summoned.

[Loresraat]

This is right at the beginning of this thread's chapter, towards the end of ROtE. It isn't in the Stonedown, it's in Revelstone. For context:

The Demondium who drove the gang to Revelstone have mysteriously left after being spoken to by Anele's mysterious posessor, and things aren't going well with the Masters. Linden was totally exhausted by it all, so she fell asleep, but here at the beginning of the chapter, Liand has been sent on an urgent errand to rouse her. He needs to tell her that the Demondium are coming back to renew their seige, and the Haruchai scouts plus "two strangers" are desperately fleeing ahead of the horde.

While still way more asleep than awake, Linden thinks she's hearing Covenant's voice calling her name over and over and over, and she feels like a bright light is piercing her eyes. Her mostly-asleep mind illogically identifies the light as "a flashlight". She also blames this on Covenant (gotta love how our thought-processes work when we're not awake, lol), and there's a sort of muffled thud going on, too. When she really comes to, she sees the sun is up, shining through her window, and Liand is of course knocking on her door and calling for her. Those circumstances could explain everything she experienced--one of those "waking world intrudes on the dream" kind of things. However, I wonder if she might not also be experiencing echoes of something going on in the "real world". Could it be a paramedic (or similar) from the real world, trying to get her to respond, checking her pupils, applying CPR, maybe minutes after the shooting in real-world time?

Does that clarify? ATM, I've only read up through a couple of chapters into FR, so I don't know if my speculation will ever be addressed in the books themselves. I'm mostly just curious if anybody else thought/thinks something similar.

[Loresraat]

Haha, I'm so long-winded, looks like Savor Dam beat me to it. That's exactly what I'm referring to.