When did the Land come into existence?

[soft one]

Using the time conversion established in the books (10 years in 'real world' time ~= 4000 years in the Land), when was the Land created in 'real world' time?

[High Lord Tolkien]

Covenant's birth.

[lorin]

1977............The day I opened LFB

[hierachy]

Well, rather than 10:4000 ratio, it would be easier to use that confirmed by SRD of 1 day in Covenant's home world = 1 year in The Land.

Dunno when it came into existence though. Quite possible that Donaldson never considered it, and thus no start exists.

[wayfriend]

Using the time conversion established in the books (10 years in 'real world' time ~= 4000 years in the Land), when was the Land created in 'real world' time?

We can't really use the equation because we don't know how old the Land was when Covenant first arrived. I don't think it ever really says.

But SRD has replied to a number of people who wanted to connect events outside the Land to events in the Land prior to Covenant's first summonsing. This response addresses such a question.

Don (dlbpharmd): Mr. Donaldson, as many have said above, thank you for writing my all-time favorite story, and thank you for continuing that story. I'm on the edge of my seat waiting for Runes to be published!

It seems, particularly in the 1st Chronicles, that so much of what is happening to Covenant physically is mirrored in the Land. For example, when his leprosy is at its worst, the Land is suffering under Foul's winter. My question: Is there any correlation between the onset of Covenant's leprosy and the enacting of the Ritual of Desecration?

• When I planned the first "Chronicles," the relationship between Covenant's leprosy and the Land's plight was foremost in my mind. In fact, I designed the Land as a reverse reflection of Covenant's dilemma; and as the story progressed I consciously brought those two opposing images closer together until they were virtually superimposed.
  
  However, the specific detail that you're asking about never actually crossed my mind. It's embarrassing, really, since it seems so obvious now that you raise it. But I didn't think of it for the same reason that I can't write prequels: as I suggested in an earlier answer, all of my attention is focused *forward*, on the ending. So I set up my reflections and then pursued their implications. I never asked myself about the implications of what might have happened *before* my starting point.
  
  Everything that I've ever created about "the past" in any of my stories is there because it helps me get where I'm going: it doesn't exist for its own sake. In this important sense, if in no other, the Land is less "real" than, say, Middle Earth. Its history does not exist independent of "current events."
  
  (04/13/2004)

[benzss]

I seem to remember in TWL, Foul told Covenant that he existed long before Covenant's world was in its infancy... or something.

I'll have to look it up.

[ur-monkey]

The 1 day = 1 year hypothesis is supported by a fair beit of evidence in the txt.

In LFB, Covenant was in the land for about 2 months (count the red moons!) and the doctor at the end said he'd been unconscious for about 4 hours. (4 hrs = 1/6 full day, 2 months = 1/6 year)

At the start of TIW, if you pay attention to the passing of time between his return home from hospital and Joan's call, the time is [about] 6 weeks. (6 wks = 42 days) and 40 years have passed in the land.

In TPTP, Covenant is stumbling about cut and bleeding for a week or so before the girl with the snakebite...7years in the land.

In TWL, it is mentioned that Caer-Caveral (Hile Troy) has been a forestal for about 35 centuries - 3500 days - very nearly 10 years. And Foul himself says something like

for a score of centuries. For nearly as many centuries more

.

If Covenant was 30 in the 1st C, and 40 in the 2nd, and if (big if) the land is his creation, logic would suggest that the land was created about 11,000 years (11,000 days, just over 30 years) BEFORE the events of LFB, or about 7-8 millennia before Berek.

that was fun![/i]

[Orlion]

This seems like a good place to post my thoughts!
I was pondering what Dr. Donaldson said about the fantasy realm being an externalization of an internal conflict. This seems to fit well with immediate events in the Land. As Covenant is struggling to maintain a life that loses more and more of its beauty, he is also struggling, along with the inhabitants of the Land, to save a world that is growing increasingly dark and grim.

Then I wondered, how do previous events fit into this internal become external drama? Here are some of my thoughts (and I think I've seen it elsewhere in a similar line of thought, but I couldn't find it):

The Ritual of Desecration is representative of Covenant's leprosy (duh ). It's coming destroyed much of worth and beauty in the Land as well as in Covenant's life. Despite this, people came back to try and salvage the Land, much like how Covenant tried to salvage his life.

I also think Berek's discovery of Earthpower corresponds with Covenant's discovery and success with his creative writing talent, but that's as far as I've gotten

Next, the Sunbane represents (at least partially) crazy Joan!

[peter]

Do you want the Creationist or the Geological answer?

[Thorhammerhand]

Since we know that the creator exists thier can only be a creationist reply!

[peter]

Mmmmm....... Assuming a 'Land' age of 5 billion years, or thereabouts, and a conversion factor of ten of our years being equal to 4000 'Land' years then we have the age of the Land in Earth years being:-

5000,000,000 divided by 400

= 12,500,000 years

Todays date being 4 - 11 - 09 (AD) then we have a creation date for the Land of :-

4th November 12,497,991 (BC)

Q.E.D

[soft one]

Mmmmm....... Assuming a 'Land' age of 5 billion years, or thereabouts, and a conversion factor of ten of our years being equal to 4000 'Land' years then we have the age of the Land in Earth years being:-

5000,000,000 divided by 400

= 12,500,000 years

Todays date being 4 - 11 - 09 (AD) then we have a creation date for the Land of :-

4th November 12,497,991 (BC)

Q.E.D

So what happened that day?

[Relayer]

IIRC, an Australopithecus named Blun discovered fire.

[peter]

There were fifteen million fingers learning how to play
You could hear the fingers picking and this is what they had to say
'Let there be Sound, Light, Drums.........'

Oh, no, - Sorry Soft one, Wrong Creation Myth!