Insequent evolution of Unfettered Ones?

[Unfettered One]

I can assure you all that I'm not an Insequent.

[drew]

My personal feelings on the Insequent, is that they are creations of Thomas Covenant.

The only flaw in my theory, is the Theomach (Ironically though, it was the Name Theomach, that gave me the idea...it looks a lot like Thomas..and Macht was Joan's maiden name....or was it her middle name...? One or the other anyways.)

I think that as the Timewarden, TC created this race of beings, in different places in time, to preserve Roger, or the Croyel, or Kasstenessen and Esmer from being able to go back in time and destroy the arch.

Perhaps, at one point, one of the bad guys was able to convince the Haruchai from ever going to the land, TC places the Vizrad in that time, to preserve their history.
The Harrow, was needed to get rid of those Demondim.
The Mahdoubt was needed to aid Linden.
We all know what the Theomach did...it's just the fact that he is also Kenaustin Ardenal that ruins my theory. He was there before TC became the Timewarden.

We all know TC wasn't perfect though...and that's why some of the Insequent are kind of bad guys...like the Harrow.

Their hatred of the Elohim also hinted me towards this Theory, as it's no surprise how Cov feels about them!!
At the end of FR when Linden asks Infelice if it's the Insequent who are the Darkness in the hearts of the elohim, And infelice tells her that it's actually the people from our world..TC LA JA and JC...but if it was TC who created the insequent, then they'd both be right.

I kind of look at them, as beings like Amok from TIW--they were created for a purpose, but they are still living beings.

[wayfriend]

If TC meddled with time sufficiently to change history, by way of creating the Insequent and sprinkling them around in time to forestall disasters, would that not endanger the Arch of Time?

I think so.

It may be hard to swallow, but I think we need to accept that the Insequent have always been around. History can't be changed as much as would be needed to add them in.

[drew]

If TC meddled with time sufficiently to change history, by way of creating the Insequent and sprinkling them around in time to forestall disasters, would that not endanger the Arch of Time?
.

I disagree.

The Theomach stopped Roger and the croyel from messing up with history.
Technically the Mahdoubt did too, by taking Linden back to the future.

Would it be different if it was Covenant who put them there for that purpose?

Who other than he would be able to know when other beings were traversing through time?

You know, I don't doubt that I'm probably wrong, just like we were ALL wrong about the Mahdoubt...it's just a feeling I have.

[wayfriend]

If TC meddled with time sufficiently to change history, by way of creating the Insequent and sprinkling them around in time to forestall disasters, would that not endanger the Arch of Time?
.

I disagree.

The Theomach stopped Roger and the croyel from messing up with history.
Technically the Mahdoubt did too, by taking Linden back to the future.

Ah. I see. If the Insequent are around only to prevent others from changing history and damaging the Arch, it would seem to work out.

However, the Insequent have had a severe impact on history themselves. The Vizard profoundly changed the Haruchai. The Theomach brought Berek to the One Tree, and became the Guardian. The Mahdoubt rescued Linden from the Harrow. Etc.

Any of those things would be significant changes to history had they not happened that way in the first place.

It's possible that all of those things would have happened that way in some other way. But it seems improbable to me. For example, if there were no Insequent, there doesn't seem to be any real way the Guardian of the One Tree would be the same.

[drew]

However, the Insequent have had a severe impact on history themselves. The Vizard profoundly changed the Haruchai.

That's what I was saying...maybe Roger, at some other point, with the Croyel, went back to the time of Haruchai's first sojourn into the Land, and had tried to stop them somehow. Convince them otherwise
Then TC as the Timewarden, puts the Vizard in place, to prevent them from leaving their necessary path. The Vizard never killed anyone, he just beat them up.

if there were no Insequent, there doesn't seem to be any real way the Guardian of the One Tree would be the same

Well that's where I'm having trouble with my theory.

[woodzter]

It was put forth....Theomach would explain Lindens act of helping Bereks wounded, as an act of the unfettered one, to explain her presence and her lore. He could tell Berek and his followers anything to smooth out ripples in the timeline.

It certainly is plausible that this is how the unfettered ones started.

yes, i agree- lots to think about with this race of newcomers, the Insequent, that according to text come from the west, and that the Haruchia visited before they came to the land, hence the Vizard's contact and the Theomach. I didn't realize that the Theomach was operating in his own time but that makes sense. My question is where where all the Insequent when the bane fire was threatening the land, when the elohim used kastenessen to stop the scurge, when foul was trying to get covenant to break the arch of time. If the Theomach was so involved to mentor Berek, why did they drop out of site for so many milenia? Of course my suspicion is that SRD didn't think of them until later, but it seems to me to be an inconsistent part of the Last Chronicles, not enough to make me not want to read them- i love them- it just seems funny- that's all.

[wayfriend]

Of course my suspicion is that SRD didn't think of them until later

Of course your suspicion is correct. SRD didn't invent them until he started trying to write the final Chronicles.

"In story", the Insequent never appeared because they, like the Elohim, don't show up when they feel like the parties on hand can take care of things themselves. Or, as with the Theomach, they may have been there during the Sunbane all along, but no one knew.

Much the same as we could say about where the heck the Elohim were during the first Chronicles!

[woodzter]

Much the same as we could say about where the heck the Elohim were during the first Chronicles!

Well yes, and good point; however, the Elohim were mentioned in the First Chronicles and "in story" they may not have believed that the arch of time was really in great danger, even if Foul got his hands on it, but once TC was infected with venom, they became actually afraid for the first time that the arch of time could be broke by Covenant, but still they may not have believed that Foul could do it.

I just feel that the Insequent are harder to position "in story" and therefore, I read with interest the possiblity that TC could have started them and put them in various places. That's far-fetched but really I was hoping for some theory that could explain things and wrap it all up with a big bow. I even think that the fact that the Theomack was already there in Berek's time does not spoil that theory because TC as time warden went to whatever places RC and the Croyel were tyring to change things and stopped it. Of course the Harrow has no time traveling privelges but TC could have still placed him where he needed them.

Also, it has been a kind of conern that not only by drinking the blood of the earth in Berek's time but there exits almost unlimited opportunities for the bad guys to change history in this four-book series, so this also accounts for why that is not happening.

Which takes us to book three- now LA has ressurected TC- now he can't continue to put the insequent whereever he needs them and we are off to the races in suspense. I think the biggest hole in that theory is the Harrow, not the Theomach(consider there was a guardian of the one tree before the Theomach beat him, wasn't there?) But why would TC put the Harrow there at that time? To take out the Viles? Ok, still he presents such a hazard to LA that it seems hard-to-believe.[/quote]

[woodzter]

oops i'm not handling the quote thing too well- i'm new here- but of course it is Wayfriend and Drew who get the credit for the ideas I am responding to.

[The Halfhand Glove Seller]

I think it may have been Infelice as well who said something along the lines that the Insequent were beings of Knowledge, not Theurgy. Could they have been some of the earliest humans (who'd picked up their knowledge through the ages)? They're certainly fallible; just look at how Brinn defeated the Theomach.

[wayfriend]

It's unclear at this point whether or not the Guardian wanted Brinn to win. Not that he threw the match. But one thing we do know is he knew it would happen long before it did. If he didn't want Brinn to win, he had a long time to prepare for it, or prepare a contingency for when it occurred, and of these we see no sign. We also know that the result isn't pleasing to Esmer, and that may not be a bad thing.

[finn]

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