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Post by Worm of Despite »

Montresor wrote:Hitchcock was certainly great.

Spielberg called Kurosawa the "Shakespeare of film" for good reason. No other film maker has so consistently brought greatness to film, interweaving plot, theme, character, and cinematography to achieve raw beauty and human truth. For me, Kurosawa is at least twice as good as the next best film maker. I'd go so far as to pick Kurosawa as the greatest artist of the twentieth century.
What I like about Shakespeare and Kurosawa is that they were both very deliberate creators and knew the machinery of what they made, yet they were also never able to dissociate their own distinct identity and emotional power from whatever they did. Many musicians can't even read music (Beatles), but Shakespeare and Kurosawa were able to have, I think, a powerful technical and human understanding of their medium... To hold both those powers often dilutes the other, but I think their genius was so great they absorbed both.

Most 20th century anything (film, pop music) strikes me as going for immediate distinction--rock 'n roll, Expressionism, harsh angles in modern art--try to shock, whereas Kurosawa and Shakespeare (obviously Shakespeare) were removed--their atmosphere was entirely a world to its own, and it's hard to explain, but I believe they sucked in their cultural pasts and art movements around them and made them their own... And of course, like Shakespeare took old stories into Elizabethan drama standards, so did Kurosawa blend modern anachronisms into Japanese past (in Seven Samurai the samurai are concerned about Rikichi "bottling up" his feelings, which is very modern; I doubt people were so aware of their emotions in everyday life in the 16th century).
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Post by Montresor »

Lord Foul wrote: What I like about Shakespeare and Kurosawa is that they were both very deliberate creators and knew the machinery of what they made, yet they were also never able to dissociate their own distinct identity and emotional power from whatever they did. Many musicians can't even read music (Beatles), but Shakespeare and Kurosawa were able to have, I think, a powerful technical and human understanding of their medium... To hold both those powers often dilutes the other, but I think their genius was so great they absorbed both.

Most 20th century anything (film, pop music) strikes me as going for immediate distinction--rock 'n roll, Expressionism, harsh angles in modern art--try to shock, whereas Kurosawa and Shakespeare (obviously Shakespeare) were removed--their atmosphere was entirely a world to its own, and it's hard to explain, but I believe they sucked in their cultural pasts and art movements around them and made them their own...
That's about as concise a summary of the mutual genius of Shakespeare and Kurosawa that I think I have ever read. I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. :D
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Montresor wrote:
Lord Foul wrote: What I like about Shakespeare and Kurosawa is that they were both very deliberate creators and knew the machinery of what they made, yet they were also never able to dissociate their own distinct identity and emotional power from whatever they did. Many musicians can't even read music (Beatles), but Shakespeare and Kurosawa were able to have, I think, a powerful technical and human understanding of their medium... To hold both those powers often dilutes the other, but I think their genius was so great they absorbed both.

Most 20th century anything (film, pop music) strikes me as going for immediate distinction--rock 'n roll, Expressionism, harsh angles in modern art--try to shock, whereas Kurosawa and Shakespeare (obviously Shakespeare) were removed--their atmosphere was entirely a world to its own, and it's hard to explain, but I believe they sucked in their cultural pasts and art movements around them and made them their own...
That's about as concise a summary of the mutual genius of Shakespeare and Kurosawa that I think I have ever read. I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. :D
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Post by Montresor »

Well, see, if I was marking it however...
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Post by Cagliostro »

I guess my faves are as follows:

Terry Gilliam - I just get him - even his clunkers are entirely watchable to me. While I think there is a lot of brilliance in it, Brazil is the one I least enjoy watching and have only seen a handful of times.

Jean-Pierre Jeunet - While the best was him with Caro (City of Lost Children in particular), he proved he is the majority of the talent with Amelie. Hell, I even liked Alien 4 and A Very Long Engagement. I have yet to see his film that is just released, and wonder if I will need to wait for DVD.

Peter Weir - He's had a few clunkers that I'm not all that interested in, and Master and Commander left me pretty cold overall, but had an especially good run from Gallipoli to The Truman Show, with Fearless being the peak, and Green Card being the valley. I love Gerard Depardieu in Green Card, but Andie McBadActress killed the rest of it for me. And Picnic At Hanging Rock is a classic.

Hayao Miyazaki - I know, I know...everyone is in love with him these days, but there's an especially good reason for it; the man is a genius of coming up with purely original things yet still retaining an optimism and sweetness and not miring in negatives, yet does not come off as saccharin. I'm always amazed when seeing a new movie of his how interesting even the minorest of characters are. And I have to say that Lassiter of Pixar does a great job at localizing the stories. I've seen several in their original form and after he gets his hands on 'em. I think I prefer Lassiter's versions as they feel a little less foreign, and yet they still very much are.

And I'd like to bring up Pixar, who doesn't quite fit in the auteur category, but I am amazed at how talented they are, and how well their films still hold up. I don't know if the empirial hand of John Lassiter is to blame, but I suspect it might be.
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Post by Worm of Despite »

Montresor wrote:Well, see, if I was marking it however...
My professor said it was the best essay he'd ever read. You can try! :P

My top 3:

1. Kurosawa
2. Kubrick
3. Miyazaki (good pick Cag; not only his works of the 80s and 90s are classic, but his early 2000 work, Spirited Away and Howl's Moving Castle, as well as the new Ponyo, prove he's still got it)

I'd also say Coppolla made some great films in the 70s but never maintained his winning streak like the folks above...
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Post by Montresor »

Cagliostro wrote: Terry Gilliam - I just get him - even his clunkers are entirely watchable to me. While I think there is a lot of brilliance in it, Brazil is the one I least enjoy watching and have only seen a handful of times.
For me Brazil is by far the best. He can be a little hit and miss for me, though he has some excellent work done. 12 Monkeys is the low point for me, if only because it's a pale version of the source material.
Cagliostro wrote: Peter Weir - He's had a few clunkers that I'm not all that interested in, and Master and Commander left me pretty cold overall, but had an especially good run from Gallipoli to The Truman Show, with Fearless being the peak, and Green Card being the valley. I love Gerard Depardieu in Green Card, but Andie McBadActress killed the rest of it for me. And Picnic At Hanging Rock is a classic.
An excellent film maker, that's for sure. He has a real knack for atmosphere. Two scenes in Witness always strike me as stand-out when I think of moments of pure atmosphere in films. For his best film I couldn't really choose between Galipoli and Picnic.
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Montresor wrote:Well, see, if I was marking it however...
My professor said it was the best essay he'd ever read. You can try! :P
Yeah, sure, why not? :) I'll give it a read if you're game . . .
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Great Directors

Post by SleeplessOne »

I've always thought Peter Weir would be an outstanding candidate to direct a TCoTC film.
Check out 'Picnic at Hanging Rock' for a look at how he is able to instill a sense of wonder, mystery and magic into the very landscape, he would be able to work wonders in the Land.
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Post by jacob Raver, sinTempter »

Miyazaki - What can you say? While I can't place any of his in my true top of the tops films, his work is amazing every time.

Weir - I like his films: Truman Show, Dead Poets, Master & Commander...I'd say Witness is probably his best.

Jeunut - Only film I've seen of his was Alien Resurrection, which I liked, as a former scifi nut, there were parts of the film that hit well for me, but there was also sheer cinematic horror - and not the intentional kind.

Gilliam - sheesh, just imdb'ed 'em, didn't realize. Wow. Les'se: Fisher King, Time Bandits, Holy Grail, 12 Monkeys, Fear & Loathing (only if your geeked) are all damn good...still have to see Brazil yet.
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Post by Cagliostro »

Montresor wrote: For me Brazil is by far the best. He can be a little hit and miss for me, though he has some excellent work done. 12 Monkeys is the low point for me, if only because it's a pale version of the source material.
For me, Munchausen and Brothers Grimm were the low points, but still entirely watchable. I think because there are so many quick cuts in Brazil, and the pacing throughout scenes (which I understand were entirely intentional), the movie starts getting under my skin. While I can appreciate artistically, it isn't a joy for me to watch. Kinda like Tideland, but for different reasons.

I always really like 12 Monkeys, and the source material is an experimental film with still photographs (and one moving). It's a 10 minute film that tells an intriguing story that is pretty much the spine of 12 Monkeys. It's kinda like taking a short story (with pictures!) and expanding it out to a feature length film. So I don't quite understand the critique I have heard every now and again from cinephiles that it is a "pale version of the original." If anything, it was an expanded version of the original. Sure, it's not in French, and not still photographs, but I've always felt it was not derserving of this critique.
Montresor wrote: An excellent film maker, that's for sure. He has a real knack for atmosphere. Two scenes in Witness always strike me as stand-out when I think of moments of pure atmosphere in films. For his best film I couldn't really choose between Galipoli and Picnic.
Just curious if you've seen Fearless. It really is one of my favorite movies of all time. The beginning is one of those shots - coming out of the cornfield to see the plane wreckage - that really stands out. It's no wonder Lost stole it for their pilot episode. And the plane crash scene in Fearless was the first and only time I had a physical reaction to a scene.

And Jacob....go out there and rent Delicatessen, City of Lost Children and Amelie. In that order.

I'd like to give a special mention to Tom DiCillo who made two of my favorite flicks - Box of Moonlight and Living In Oblivion. But other than Double Whammy (which I really like) and Johnny Suede (which I have no memory of), I don't think I've seen any more of his stuff. Which I am now remedying.

I used to really like Wes Anderson, but lately his stuff has been leaving me cold. The upcoming fox movie looks like it might cement my feelings of late.
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Post by Montresor »

Cagliostro wrote:
I always really like 12 Monkeys, and the source material is an experimental film with still photographs (and one moving). It's a 10 minute film that tells an intriguing story that is pretty much the spine of 12 Monkeys. It's kinda like taking a short story (with pictures!) and expanding it out to a feature length film. So I don't quite understand the critique I have heard every now and again from cinephiles that it is a "pale version of the original." If anything, it was an expanded version of the original. Sure, it's not in French, and not still photographs, but I've always felt it was not derserving of this critique.
It's actually 28 minutes long, and the director (who is an American) provided an English-language narration on one version. Anyway, I'm splitting hairs.

I really liked 12 Monkeys until I saw La Jetee. Honestly, that film totally floored me with its vision and originality so much that Gilliam's film just dropped off the radar completely for me. La Jetee (I think) does more in its 28 minutes, in telling a great story, elaborating on the themes of time travel, and presenting a work of art than 12 Monkeys does in its feature length.

That one moving shot which you mentioned is one of the most striking moments in film that I can remember.

Of course, different things appeal to different people, and I can understand some people just not liking La Jetee as much.
Cagliostro wrote:
Just curious if you've seen Fearless. It really is one of my favorite movies of all time. The beginning is one of those shots - coming out of the cornfield to see the plane wreckage - that really stands out. It's no wonder Lost stole it for their pilot episode. And the plane crash scene in Fearless was the first and only time I had a physical reaction to a scene.
Unfortunately I haven't seen it yet, despite liking Weir a lot and hearing nothing but very high praise about it. I have no idea why I haven't seen it, honestly.
Cagliostro wrote:
I'd like to give a special mention to Tom DiCillo who made two of my favorite flicks - Box of Moonlight and Living In Oblivion. But other than Double Whammy (which I really like) and Johnny Suede (which I have no memory of), I don't think I've seen any more of his stuff. Which I am now remedying.
I really liked Living in Oblivion, and I have seen The Real Blonde. The Real Blonde was a little underwhelming after LiO, but I liked it well enough.
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Post by Cagliostro »

Montresor wrote: I really liked 12 Monkeys until I saw La Jetee. Honestly, that film totally floored me with its vision and originality so much that Gilliam's film just dropped off the radar completely for me. La Jetee (I think) does more in its 28 minutes, in telling a great story, elaborating on the themes of time travel, and presenting a work of art than 12 Monkeys does in its feature length.

That one moving shot which you mentioned is one of the most striking moments in film that I can remember.
Yeah, I saw 12 Monkeys first, and I had the opposite reaction, which is that it highlighted how good 12 Monkeys is for me. Then again, I'm a Gilliam fanboy, and not to be trusted. And, unfortunately, the one moving shot moment was spoilered for me, otherwise it might have had more impact.
Montresor wrote: Unfortunately I haven't seen it yet, despite liking Weir a lot and hearing nothing but very high praise about it. I have no idea why I haven't seen it, honestly.
Then remedy that, sir. And tell me what you think.
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Post by Usivius »

forget "source material" ... 12 Monkeys is a great film, getting fabulous performances from Willis and Stowe. It is moving in a way that La Jetee was not for me. Although I think La Jetee is truly a great short movie, I think 12 Monkeys not just 'expands' it, but makes it very watchable in the similar way that said source material did.

Fear and Loathing is his low point for me...

and Fearless... yes, i have written about this one many times. It is deeply moving and the only movie to make me openly cry.
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Post by jacob Raver, sinTempter »

I don't know that I'd call him great, but Terrence Malick (New World, Badlands, Thin Red Line and Days of Heaven) has a very distinct style all his own...his films flow instead of suspend...very good, yet without direct purpose.
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Post by Montresor »

Badlands is certainly one of the best dramas I've ever seen.
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Post by jacob Raver, sinTempter »

Montresor wrote:Badlands is certainly one of the best dramas I've ever seen.
That's the only one I haven't seen yet...I'll let ya know.
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Post by Krazy Kat »

I think Sydney Pollack deserves a mention here.
Jeremiah Johnston is one of my all time favourite films.

Three Days of the Condor
The Yakusa
The Electric Horseman
They Shoot Horses Don't They
The Scalphunters

...are all great movies, Tootsie and The Firm are also very watchable.
Ah heck, I even enjoyed The Way We Were.
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Post by Usivius »

Vader wrote:I like everything David Cronenberg, Coen Brothers, Terry Gilliam and Terry Jones.
8O well, 3 out of 4 aint bad. :biggrin: just kidding. I love Terry Jones, but I do not think he is a great director.
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Post by Usivius »

Montresor wrote:
Lord Foul wrote: What I like about Shakespeare and Kurosawa is that they were both very deliberate creators and knew the machinery of what they made, yet they were also never able to dissociate their own distinct identity and emotional power from whatever they did. Many musicians can't even read music (Beatles), but Shakespeare and Kurosawa were able to have, I think, a powerful technical and human understanding of their medium... To hold both those powers often dilutes the other, but I think their genius was so great they absorbed both.

Most 20th century anything (film, pop music) strikes me as going for immediate distinction--rock 'n roll, Expressionism, harsh angles in modern art--try to shock, whereas Kurosawa and Shakespeare (obviously Shakespeare) were removed--their atmosphere was entirely a world to its own, and it's hard to explain, but I believe they sucked in their cultural pasts and art movements around them and made them their own...
That's about as concise a summary of the mutual genius of Shakespeare and Kurosawa that I think I have ever read. I couldn't agree more with your sentiments. :D
agreed. 100%.
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Post by finn »

Amazingly I did not see Ridley Scott as I browsed through. Whilst many of those named have made very good movies, cinematic art one might say, I enjoy the movies of Scott and also for that matter, Ron Howard. These directors may not be so hip, but they make bloody good movies (IMO)!
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