Does Stephen Hawkins M theory explain the land?

[jackgiantkiller]

Did the creator set off the big bang and start time, is the wormoftheworldsend a black hole? and if there are multiverses could one be the universe that holds the lands earth? time isnt constant and TC could have went through a worm hole.

[Krazy Kat]

What's M theory?

[Vraith]

Not an expert, but I think the answer is no, because AFAIK, nothing in it alters the time dimension [all the extra dimensions are spacial]. You are correct that time isn't constant, however it does have, as far as we know, a natural pace if unaffected by other things. That pace is only very slightly faster than what we experience on earth. Nothing implied in M-theory suggest mechanisms/objects that accelerate time...certainly not on a world, or universe scale. All the mechanisms/objects either don't touch time, or slow it down.

But what I want to know is: Why can't we just let magic be magic?

[jackgiantkiller]

The theory that tries to join quantum theory and special relativity, in a theory of the universe that joins the two exclusive theories of the large and small. in that when the big bang happended many universes were created or decayed depending on yor relative view. does that clear it up? Hawkin describes hawkin radiation that can escape from the event horison of a black hole due to the duality of matter. this proves that blackholes could explode(or implode depending on what universe you are in) to create matter rather than just 'suck in' matter energy and time itself

[jackgiantkiller]

Dont you do physics in notts Krazycat?

[Krazy Kat]

Dont you do physics in notts Krazycat?

Yes! But Hawkings is Cambridge.

[jackgiantkiller]

But Cambridge is Notts in string theory or anywhere! if particals can exist in two places at once they can exict in infinit places at onces, so all the particals that are hawkins could exist in cambridge and notts at same time! if time is fluid rather than waveish, then time could be different in our earth and the lands earth

[Krazy Kat]

But what I want to know is: Why can't we just let magic be magic?

I agree. Although jackgiantkiller just might be looking into a branch of physics were some of the magic of the Land is explainable. The appearance of Amok, for example.

I know next to zip about string theory. I read some explanations in a Michio Kaku book last year, and I thought that string theory was analogous to the harmonics created by a guitar string. And if amplified through a fuzz box could produce something that would on first appearance seem like magic but given expert care could be quantified and reduced to a mathematical equation.

String metal and varnished wood and a little electricity mixed together in the right combination could well produce magical sound and vision. But a black hole, I very much doubt.

So all in all, physics doesn't interest me all that much. I much prefer the ideology of Yes Music and the art of Roger Dean to show me the mechanics of the universe with it's underlying physical properties. And besides, Jon Anderson and the boys sing a lot better songs than Stephen Hawkins.

[Orlion]

The main characteristic of M-theory is the use of an eleventh dimension to unify the five seperate string theories in existence. This eleventh dimension (if I recall correctly) is something like a wire that runs through everything and contains several if not all universes. When I learned about it, scientists were speculating that if this dimension had rubbed against itself and ruptured, it could have caused the Big Bang and provide the mass for it.

I, personally, don't think we really need M-theory to try to explain the Land scientifically. All we need is a "fifth" dimension. Adding another dimension, in my own thoughts, would be sufficient to produce a universe different from our own, like our world is different from a drawing. Time, as a dimension, would be necesary in both in order for objects in space to change position, but that doesn't mean that Time would affect the Land and its four dimensions the same as it'd affect our world and our three dimensions.

Of course, I am only studying to be a chemist, not a physicist

[peter]

In an infinite number of universes all possible universes must exist - even those whose physics is at odds with the physics of our own. So by this logic(?) it follows that somewhere, somewhen, the Land must exist and be playing out just as written in the Chrons. (You could use the ontological argument for the existance of God also to demonstrate the existance of the Land if you wanted to.)
The magic/physics question is also adressed by the observation that somebody whose name I forget made that 'Any sufficiently advanced technology will appear to a much less advanced people as magic'. To define where magic starts and where physics ends is thus impossible so have no fear Vraith - the Magic of the Land is safe even from Jacks analytical brain.

[peter]

The 'M' of M theory I believe stands for membrane, and refers to 'rolled up' dimensions that appear as the strings of string theory (probably wrong that last bit, but nice and simple to a primative organism like me). The M might just as well (to date I believe) stand for metaphysical since when I last heard, the theory suffered from a major problem in that it was not 'falseifiable' - and thus did not constitute a scientific theory in the true sense. It apparently sits on the fence of the physical/metaphysical divide and as such many physisists question it's usefullness as a step in the long journey toward a unified field theory regarding it more as a dead end theory that can neither be proven or refuted.

[Krazy Kat]

In an infinite number of universes all possible universes must exist - even those whose physics is at odds with the physics of our own. So by this logic(?) it follows that somewhere, somewhen, the Land must exist and be playing out just as written in the Chrons.

I very much doubt that, peter. Firstly, the Land is somewhere conceived in the imagination of an author. And secondly, if it were really possible that Lord Mhoram really existed somewhere, some other universe, then I'm sure he would have a modicum of free will and not be some puppet controlled by a Lord God Donaldson. I think SRD has better things to do with his own universe than to run another elsewhere in time and space.

[Orlion]

Peter-
The main problem with M-theory and the String theories is that they depend on the existence of "strings". Stephen Hawking once wrote (In a Brief History of Time, I believe) that it would take a third (or so) of all the energy in the universe to prove the existence of strings. So, it may be theoretically possible to falsify, but as you implied, in practical terms it's pretty tough.

However, I believe the theory may predict other particles and such that we can falsify, hence the importance of the huge particle collider in Europe in trying to locate "the god particle." Though that may actually be a prediction of another theory...

As far as your statement about infinite number of universes, that's true to a point. It's still within the realm of whatever mechanics rule the multiverse. For example, you could roll a six-sided dice an infinite number of times, and you will come up with all the numbers 1-6, but you will never roll a 7. It's just outside the realm of possibility.

Finally, I think you're right about the meaning of the letter "M" in M-theory.

[peter]

In an infinite number of universes all possible universes must exist - even those whose physics is at odds with the physics of our own. So by this logic(?) it follows that somewhere, somewhen, the Land must exist and be playing out just as written in the Chrons.

I very much doubt that, peter. Firstly, the Land is somewhere conceived in the imagination of an author. And secondly, if it were really possible that Lord Mhoram really existed somewhere, some other universe, then I'm sure he would have a modicum of free will and not be some puppet controlled by a Lord God Donaldson. I think SRD has better things to do with his own universe than to run another elsewhere in time and space.

The idea is Kat, that with an infinite number of alternative universes any universe you can concieve of, no matter how bizarre, has to exist because it is one of the infinite possibilities. re 'God' SRD, could it not just as easily be 'God' Morham whose actions command the pen of vasal SRD from afar? ie the supposed imaginations we have are just reflections of what occurs in our infinite number of interconnected universes.
(NB the infinite number of universes thing is I believe deeply embedded into quantum physics and is not really part of this God/ Donaldson thing which is just my response to Kats above (perfectly valid I hasten to add) comment.)

[Krazy Kat]

In an infinite number of universes all possible universes must exist - even those whose physics is at odds with the physics of our own. So by this logic(?) it follows that somewhere, somewhen, the Land must exist and be playing out just as written in the Chrons.

I very much doubt that, peter. Firstly, the Land is somewhere conceived in the imagination of an author. And secondly, if it were really possible that Lord Mhoram really existed somewhere, some other universe, then I'm sure he would have a modicum of free will and not be some puppet controlled by a Lord God Donaldson. I think SRD has better things to do with his own universe than to run another elsewhere in time and space.

The idea is Kat, that with an infinite number of alternative universes any universe you can concieve of, no matter how bizarre, has to exist because it is one of the infinite possibilities. re 'God' SRD, could it not just as easily be 'God' Morham whose actions command the pen of vasal SRD from afar? ie the supposed imaginations we have are just reflections of what occurs in our infinite number of interconnected universes.
(NB the infinite number of universes thing is I believe deeply embedded into quantum physics and is not really part of this God/ Donaldson thing which is just my response to Kats above (perfectly valid I hasten to add) comment.)

What a load of BUNKUM!

How on earth do you know these things?
I think you are just making it all up because is sounds good. There's no evidence of what say, it's all just intellectual claptrap!

[Zarathustra]

I believe Donaldson would think that this question entirely misses the point of his artistic creation. Search the GI for science and magic.

[Edit] Here's a few to get you all started:

Therefore the essential substance of fantasy worlds is composed of "that which transcends definition" rather than of, for example, electrons and J particles. And *therefore* the inhabitants of fantasy worlds think and act in magical rather than in technological or scientific terms. (Just one example. I hope you don't imagine that the Giants formed Starfare's Gem by digging up chunks of granite, devising tools to cut the granite into slabs, and then glueing, pegging, or trussing the slabs together. That's *way* too much trouble when you already have access to wood. And then there's Revelstone. My point is that the ability of the Giants to work with stone doesn't derive from tools: it derives from magic; from the essence of who they are.)

Putting the matter crudely, you're asking an external question about an internal story. Still crudely: my nightmares don't care whether ravaging monsters with four heads and venomous fangs have ever existed, or whether such creatures can be killed with gauss rifles; my nightmares only care that those monsters are after *me*.

(09/14/2005)

In sf, the differences between our reality and the secondary creation are explained materially (rationally): x, y, or z has happened in science/technology, and therefore reality is changed. In fantasy, the differences are explained magically (arationally): x, y, or z powers (which can be imagined, but which defy any material explanation) exist, and therefore reality is changed. As I see it, such distinctions have profound implications. For example, fantasy is--sort of by definition--a journey into the non-rational possibilities of the human mind (a journey inward): sf is a journey into the rational possibilities of consensus reality (a journey outward).

(10/15/2005)

I think it's clear that my "mechanisms" are based on magic rather than science. I don't know enough about (among many other things) quantum mechanics to use any other approach.

(02/22/2007)

[peter]

What a load of BUNKUM!

How on earth do you know these things?
I think you are just making it all up because is sounds good. There's no evidence of what say, it's all just intellectual claptrap!

Now now Kat, Calm down dear. Of course it's all bunkum. Don't you worry yourself about it, but (to paraphrase the Bard - more intellectual claptrap I'm afraid) there just may be more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

[Krazy Kat]

[Orlion]

Giving yourself a concussion is an excellent way to start to understand String Theories

To get to Z's point, I don't think that trying to find a scientific frame of reference for the Land is necesarily "missing the point of the Chronicles." In of itself, sure, but trying to give the Land scientific legitimency seems to underly a certain desire that the Land and what it represents is real. We want the "blaze, the splendour, and the symmetry." Heck, we'd want an external evil force also, something that we could identify as a source of evil and that we could fight directly. A little analysis of this desire will show us that the values, in of themselves, are good, desirable, and worth defending, even if it could exist only in a realm of "bunkum".

In this case, we're having the same struggle TC had, in which we want the Land to be real so that we can accept what it embodies. Hopefully, we can come to accept the values of the Land even if we can not prove/disprove its existence.

[jackgiantkiller]

K.K. as a girl obviously such thinking is alien 2 you and could be harmful to your neurology. perhaps its best if you focus on the hairstyles of the woodhaven or cookery tips of stonedowners. you could debate if a yorkshire pudding could rise on a graverlings fire!!!!