Just curious as to what people's takes on Jerimiah's bone structure are.
Personally, I think all it is just what J said it was -- a door to let his mind out. Despite Infelice shrieking and vanishing as it activated I don't think it's an Elohim trap/prison.
The bone construct
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QuantumMechanic
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aliantha
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The Elohim have been mistaken about human intention at least one other time. Jeremiah said the thing he built was a door out of his mind -- he didn't say anything about trapping anybody in it. I believe him. 
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TWDuke77
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Not to TRAP the Elohim - to PROTECT them from the Worm. Now it's gonna have to come to Skyweir and face Covenant ASAP. And no infernal interference from the Elohim to screw things up. He'll free them again at the end, you wait and see.
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Vraith
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I speculated elsewhere about the possibility that Jerry might trap them, thereby save them, and let them out later. [whether he's smart/caring enough to plan and want to do that remains to be seen] It's unclear to me if this structure trapped them or not [it might have, after all it's made from the bones of creatures that hunted the Elo], or if it's just that the Elo knew that once Jerry got his mind free he'd be able to trap them.TWDuke77 wrote:Not to TRAP the Elohim - to PROTECT them from the Worm. Now it's gonna have to come to Skyweir and face Covenant ASAP. And no infernal interference from the Elohim to screw things up. He'll free them again at the end, you wait and see.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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Orlion
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I personally speculate that it may have used Elohim as pieces of the construct.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
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Govern the reasoning creature, man.
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I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
I don't have my copy in front of me right now, but almost immediately after J frees himself and traps the Elohim, in the following chapter during Covenant's discussion with Clyme and Branl, there is a line about how power is only useful when it is constrained by boundaries - and he actually says something about how useless the Elohim are because they HAVE no boundaries...
Well...my guess is that J's trapping of the Elohim (which clearly imposes boundaries and constraints upon them) will somehow actually allow them/force them to use their power to intervene, based on the theme involving power and constraint. How, I have no idea. But it seems like a pretty big textual clue.
Well...my guess is that J's trapping of the Elohim (which clearly imposes boundaries and constraints upon them) will somehow actually allow them/force them to use their power to intervene, based on the theme involving power and constraint. How, I have no idea. But it seems like a pretty big textual clue.
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Orlion
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Yeah, 'cuz there can be other "constructs" that aren't built by JeremiahSeareach wrote:No, i don't think so. It's non specific. If it said "Jerimiah's Bone Construct" then I would have a problem with it.native wrote:Isn't the topic title a spoiler?
I also wanted to chime in to say that I really like johnsomc's interpretation.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
I agree that the story is ambiguous as to whether the Elohim were trapped or not. Maybe we could ask SRD in his Gradual Interview? If he says "Wait til the next book" that means something significant is impending on the matter. If he says "Didn't I make it obvious they were trapped?" that answers that.
But also, wasn't the bone construct destroyed in the process? How would it still trap the Elohim?
But also, wasn't the bone construct destroyed in the process? How would it still trap the Elohim?
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Vraith
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Yea, part of my uncertainty: were they all instantly trapped? Or will he do that later? If later...looks like the Worm is coming this way now...so if any are free how are they hiding? And when will it be built? And why?Aleksandr wrote: But also, wasn't the bone construct destroyed in the process? How would it still trap the Elohim?
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
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Orlion
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Roger talks about how Jeremiah can open a door to another place and then shut it, trapping the Elohim within. If you burn the door down, that'd probably trap the Elohim there effectively forever.Vraith wrote:Yea, part of my uncertainty: were they all instantly trapped? Or will he do that later? If later...looks like the Worm is coming this way now...so if any are free how are they hiding? And when will it be built? And why?Aleksandr wrote: But also, wasn't the bone construct destroyed in the process? How would it still trap the Elohim?
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
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aliantha
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I'll ask him this weekend at WFC. Stay tuned.Aleksandr wrote:I agree that the story is ambiguous as to whether the Elohim were trapped or not. Maybe we could ask SRD in his Gradual Interview? If he says "Wait til the next book" that means something significant is impending on the matter. If he says "Didn't I make it obvious they were trapped?" that answers that.
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Orlion
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And I'll make a bunch of noise while he answersaliantha wrote:I'll ask him this weekend at WFC. Stay tuned.Aleksandr wrote:I agree that the story is ambiguous as to whether the Elohim were trapped or not. Maybe we could ask SRD in his Gradual Interview? If he says "Wait til the next book" that means something significant is impending on the matter. If he says "Didn't I make it obvious they were trapped?" that answers that.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
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aliantha
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Why???? He'll probably say RAFO anyhow!Orlion wrote:And I'll make a bunch of noise while he answersaliantha wrote:I'll ask him this weekend at WFC. Stay tuned.Aleksandr wrote:I agree that the story is ambiguous as to whether the Elohim were trapped or not. Maybe we could ask SRD in his Gradual Interview? If he says "Wait til the next book" that means something significant is impending on the matter. If he says "Didn't I make it obvious they were trapped?" that answers that.
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"Dreaming isn't good for you unless you do the things it tells you to." -- Three Dog Night (via the GI)
https://www.hearth-myth.com/
The fact that Jeremiah used the quellvisk bones to free his mind is not purely incidental. There's a clear relation to those bones and the Elohim and their motives to intervene in affairs.
We know that the Elohim only began to fight the quellvisks once they had found their way to Elemesnedene. So basically, once the danger reached their backyard, they decided to respond with action.
Perhaps the connection lies in the sort of "fixing and mending what is broken" motif throughout the book. Jeremiah's self-composed emancipation of his own mind via an Earthpower-guided marrowmelded construct of bones which were the result of the Elohim's mercilessness may yet have benefits for the Elohim themselves.
He builds structures. The one that freed him from his mental stasis was ultimately made possible by Anele and the orcrest. Linden's Staff of Law was once Anele's, but he lost it. The Staff of Law supports the essential structures of Earthpower. Jeremiah is Linden's son. It is conceivable that he may have the ability to wield the Staff. Or to build another structure that would somehow support the Earth and Law.
The Elohim fear being caught in a structure created by Jeremiah, despite the fact that they Appointed Findail to the task of being bound with Vain--who is pure structure--in the Staff of Law. Perhaps what they're really afraid of is Jeremiah's talent being used to bind all of them into some structure that would serve to defend and support Time and Law.
We know that the Elohim only began to fight the quellvisks once they had found their way to Elemesnedene. So basically, once the danger reached their backyard, they decided to respond with action.
Perhaps the connection lies in the sort of "fixing and mending what is broken" motif throughout the book. Jeremiah's self-composed emancipation of his own mind via an Earthpower-guided marrowmelded construct of bones which were the result of the Elohim's mercilessness may yet have benefits for the Elohim themselves.
He builds structures. The one that freed him from his mental stasis was ultimately made possible by Anele and the orcrest. Linden's Staff of Law was once Anele's, but he lost it. The Staff of Law supports the essential structures of Earthpower. Jeremiah is Linden's son. It is conceivable that he may have the ability to wield the Staff. Or to build another structure that would somehow support the Earth and Law.
The Elohim fear being caught in a structure created by Jeremiah, despite the fact that they Appointed Findail to the task of being bound with Vain--who is pure structure--in the Staff of Law. Perhaps what they're really afraid of is Jeremiah's talent being used to bind all of them into some structure that would serve to defend and support Time and Law.
"Verily, wisdom is like hunger. Perhaps it is a very fine thing--but who would willingly partake of it."
--Saltheart Foamfollower
"Latency--what is concealed--is the demonstrable presence of the future."
--Jean Gebser
--Saltheart Foamfollower
"Latency--what is concealed--is the demonstrable presence of the future."
--Jean Gebser
I just read this chapter today. I think the construct was solely to free his mind. But I think Infelice freaked out so badly because she can see the eventual outcome of that freedom - Foul can now possess Jeremiah (his mind being walled up was his defense against possession).
The Elohim may fear being imprisoned inside a construct, but they fear LF getting in control of Jeremiah more I would think.
The Elohim may fear being imprisoned inside a construct, but they fear LF getting in control of Jeremiah more I would think.