What SRD said about AATE at WFC

[aliantha]

Okay, I'll start.

First: there's a typo on the dust jacket of the US edition of AATE. See if you can find it.

I asked SRD about Jeremiah's bone construct and whether he had trapped the Elohim in it. He confirmed my impression that the Elohim have *not* been trapped in the construct -- and, he added, how could Jeremiah have formed the intention to do it? He hasn't been mentally *present*; he could not consciously choose to serve Despite.

We talked about SHE and Diassomer Mininderain. He *almost* made it sound like they are the same being -- but then he veered away from it. Maddening!

And then I asked him why he had to blow Liand's head off. His answer was about what you'd expect -- along the lines of, "What else could I have done?" Then we talked about the body count, and he said the mortality rate in AATE is directly attributable to some guy (didn't catch who) who complained about the low body count in FR.

And the name of a certain Watcher who refuses to read AATE came up. He's on to you, Fist!

Dlb had a bunch more questions than I did -- I'll let him talk about those. But I will say that SRD was his usual gracious self and generous with his time, despite suffering from a cold.

[Fist and Faith]

Then we talked about the body count, and he said the mortality rate in AATE is directly attributable to some guy (didn't catch who) who complained about the low body count in FR.

That's really funny!

And the name of a certain Watcher who refuses to read AATE came up. He's on to you, Fist!

I imagine he's already forgotten about me.

[Seareach]

And the name of a certain Watcher who refuses to read AATE came up. He's on to you, Fist!

...awh...who dobbed poor Fist in?!?!?

[aliantha]

And the name of a certain Watcher who refuses to read AATE came up. He's on to you, Fist!

...awh...who dobbed poor Fist in?!?!?

It wasn't me!

[Seareach]

And the name of a certain Watcher who refuses to read AATE came up. He's on to you, Fist!

...awh...who dobbed poor Fist in?!?!?

It wasn't me!

Bad dlb!!!!!

[Damelon]

Then we talked about the body count, and he said the mortality rate in AATE is directly attributable to some guy (didn't catch who) who complained about the low body count in FR.

That's really funny!

And the name of a certain Watcher who refuses to read AATE came up. He's on to you, Fist!

I imagine he's already forgotten about me.

Watch out for unmarked packages...

[dlbpharmd]

...awh...who dobbed poor Fist in?!?!?

It wasn't me!

Bad dlb!!!!!

It wasn't me! I'd blame Romeo.

[aliantha]

I would too.

I remembered this morning: I asked SRD to confirm that Sunder & Hollian knew what they were doing when they sent Elena to be sacrificed to She, and he said they did, that Elena was really their only choice. And re the Dead in Andelain, they show up in guises based on the needs of the person who called them. And yes, the Theomach died when Brinn overcame him at the Isle of the One Tree.

What else? Help me out here, you guys...

[Borillar]

I asked SRD about Jeremiah's bone construct and whether he had trapped the Elohim in it. He confirmed my impression that the Elohim have *not* been trapped in the construct -- and, he added, how could Jeremiah have formed the intention to do it? He hasn't been mentally *present*; he could not consciously choose to serve Despite.

When I first read the part of AATE where Infelice disappeared, I had the thought of the construct sending the Elohim to our world (kind of like the end of the Simpsons Halloween special where Homer winds up in the real world and is excited to find the erotic cakes store).

[dlbpharmd]

I would too.

I remembered this morning: I asked SRD to confirm that Sunder & Hollian knew what they were doing when they sent Elena to be sacrificed to She, and he said they did, that Elena was really their only choice. And re the Dead in Andelain, they show up in guises based on the needs of the person who called them. And yes, the Theomach died when Brinn overcame him at the Isle of the One Tree.

What else? Help me out here, you guys...

re: Elena.....He said "who else but Elena could distract She away from Covenant and the rest?" That makes alot of sense when you think about She as a being that represents betrayed women.

He mentioned that someone on the GI had asked why Lena had not shown up with the Dead. He said he hadn't answered the question yet, but he thought it had something to do with the fact that Lena is not a being of Earthpower ( like Elena, or even to the small degree that Atiaran was trained at the Loresraat with Earthpower.)

I told him that I was pissed when Elena was consumed by She, and that if he had thrown both Elena AND Lena to She, he would be in big trouble.

[aliantha]

I asked SRD about Jeremiah's bone construct and whether he had trapped the Elohim in it. He confirmed my impression that the Elohim have *not* been trapped in the construct -- and, he added, how could Jeremiah have formed the intention to do it? He hasn't been mentally *present*; he could not consciously choose to serve Despite.

When I first read the part of AATE where Infelice disappeared, I had the thought of the construct sending the Elohim to our world (kind of like the end of the Simpsons Halloween special where Homer winds up in the real world and is excited to find the erotic cakes store).

But then what's happening to the stars at the end of the book? They're slowly winking out, one by one.... Crap, we forgot to ask him about the sun not coming up.

[Orlion]

Let's see.. the dead can walk around however they please, they do not need people present to be at Andelain...

The Creator is a complex complex that lies beyond our capacity to understand. That's why he hates Creator questions, because they treat him like a percievable entity.

Apparently, for Lord Foul to wield White Gold, Covenant has to be part of the Arch.

No one knows the future, not even Arch-Covenant.

Theomach was among the Dead because he was...well, dead. But also because he's the most knowledgable in time mechanics.

[dlbpharmd]

Let's see.. the dead can walk around however they please, they do not need people present to be at Andelain...

So, my follow up to this point was "So why did it take so long for the Old Lords to forgive Kevin?"

SRD said "they had to wait for the right opportunity." SRD talked about how people with severe depression close themselves off from those around them. They tend to have circular reasoning and can spiral down into these dark depths of depression and they can't be reached. So, here we have Kevin, actively engaged in conversation with the Living and aggressively advocating Linden's murder. This opening of his emotions allowed an opportunity for the Old Lords to confront him about his role in the RoD. It was, in effect, an "intervention."

[dlbpharmd]

Aliantha and I have just finished breakfast and are brainstorming about the rest of our conversation with SRD.

My first question was about Diassomer Mininderain. I set the question up by talking about Sunder's song in TWL, where DM is referred to as a mate for the Creator, and "heaven's chatelaine." I told him that to me, this was similar to the Old Testatment book of Hosea, in which God tells Hosea to marry a prostitute named (unfortunately) Gomer. In this OT book, the unfaithful Gomer represents Israel's unfaithfulness to God. SRD said, "You know, now that you mention it, that's so obvious, but I didn't think about it 30 years ago when I was writing The Wounded Land." I said "I'm having trouble separating DM from She." His answer was that we have to remember that this song is from the Clave and therefore represents the distortions by the Clave. But, there is a definite similarity between DM and She.

Then he started talking about how he hates Creator questions, because he doesn't think of "the Creator" as a person who would NEED a mate. He talked about if there is a being that creates, then it makes sense that there must be an opposite being that is despair. (I thought it interesting that he used the term despair as the opposite of creation instead of 'destruction.') Then he talked about how it makes sense that if there is this force that is the manifestation of love and passion, then there must be an opposite, which is complete indifference.

[dlbpharmd]

My next major question to SRD relates back to this question that I submitted to the GI, soon after Elohimfest 2007 in Albuquerque:

Don:  Your comment the other night about "needing the ring more than Tolkien" has really had me thinking about Covenant and Joan and their relationship. Just as the state of the Land was mirrored in Covenant in First Chronicles, Joan's physical state reflected the plight of the Land in 2nd and now Last Chronicles. Is Joan connected to the Land simply because she and Covenant were married, or is there some deeper reason?


Well of *course* there's "some deeper reason". <grin> But I hope you don't expect me to tell you what it is. I mean, aside from obvious things like: she has a white gold ring (the "mate" to Covenant's); and her "betrayal" of her marriage vows has left her vulnerable to the insidious seductions of Despite. However, I will say that if you're willing to stretch a point or three, you could conceivably think of her as Covenant's thematic doppleganger. (How come there's never an umlaut around when you need one?)

(07/02/2007)

I talked about the Christian concept of marriage - that two people become united in marriage and become "one." I said that, to me, Covenant and Joan are so entwined in the Land, that it must be that their rings are the ONLY 2 white gold rings that could wield wild magic. He said that, going back to the origin of white gold, it isn't found in the Land at all. If it were possible to make white gold, then there could be thousands of white gold rings wielding wild magic. But since Covenant and Joan's rings are the only 2 that have made it to the Land, these rings are the only manifestations of wild magic.

My follow up: "Who is the rightful wielder of Covenant's ring?" Answer was, essentially, that neither Covenant nor Linden are rightful wielders of the rings they bear. Immediately, I asked "Is Lord Foul the rightful wielder of Covenant's ring?" He said "You could make a strong argument that Lord Foul is the rightful wielder. But it wouldn't do him any good, because he can't destroy the Arch that way." As Orlion said above, Foul can't attack the AoT with wild magic without putting Covenant back into the Arch, and if that happens, Foul can't win (essentially we'd be back to the ending of WGW, and SRD said he didn't want to tell that story again.) I'm really fuzzy on this answer, and if I see SRD again today, I'm going to ask him to clarify.

More later!

[Aleksandr]

He mentioned that someone on the GI had asked why Lena had not shown up with the Dead.

Back TWL we did see Lena and her parents among the Dead: they appeared to TC as he wandered the margins of Andelain with Vain after escaping Stonemight Woodhelven. Lena compelled him to eat aliantha.

[Seareach]

It wasn't me!

Bad dlb!!!!!

It wasn't me! I'd blame Romeo.

Bad Romeo!!!

[Dagonet]

Then he started talking about how he hates Creator questions, because he doesn't think of "the Creator" as a person who would NEED a mate. He talked about if there is a being that creates, then it makes sense that there must be an opposite being that is despair. (I thought it interesting that he used the term despair as the opposite of creation instead of 'destruction.')

From the end of TPTP:

"Further, you were in your own way a creator. You had already tasted the way in which a creator may be impotent to heal his creation. It is ofttimes this impotence which teaches a creation to despair,"
"What about the creator? Why doesn't he despair?"
"Why should he despair? If he cannot bear the world he has made, he can make another. No, Thomas Covenant." The voice laughed softly, sadly. "Gods and creators are too powerful and powerless for despair."

[dlbpharmd]

He mentioned that someone on the GI had asked why Lena had not shown up with the Dead.

Back TWL we did see Lena and her parents among the Dead: they appeared to TC as he wandered the margins of Andelain with Vain after escaping Stonemight Woodhelven. Lena compelled him to eat aliantha.

We are talking about AATE.

[Romeo]

Bad dlb!!!!!

It wasn't me! I'd blame Romeo.

Bad Romeo!!!

Hey - I told him about it *previous* to that meeting. And as a funny story - I wasn't about to say there was someone who refused to read the book because he was disappointed. it was either dlb or ali who actually said the name "Fist."