In the absence of any real information about female haruchai and their children I just wondered if we on the Watch could build up a little scenario about how they might look, what might their take on the world be, how would the Haruchai home life be organised etc. Do the Haruchai live in villages or individually for example, do the men live with their wives or just return like wandering tomcats when the mood takes them.
I love the Haruchai so much that I want to know these things - and unless I find out from you lot I don't think it's ever going to happen (very unfair because we found out all about the Ramen - Gilden Fire goes a little way to answering some of these questions, but not very far).
If anyone has any pictures of what would for them be Haruchai women and young'uns that would be nice too.
Female Haruchai - and little ones.
Moderators: kevinswatch, Orlion
-
peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11616
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
- Been thanked: 6 times
Female Haruchai - and little ones.
Your politicians screwed you over and you are suprised by this?
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
hue of fuzzpaws
- <i>Haruchai</i>
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:18 am
-
peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11616
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
- Been thanked: 6 times
Hi Hue,
Can I see a blown up version of this picture anywhere. Also I'd be interested to see some of your non-Watch related work if it's grouped together anyplace. By the way - where is Blackhawk these days. I don't seem to have seen much of his work appearing for a while.
Can I see a blown up version of this picture anywhere. Also I'd be interested to see some of your non-Watch related work if it's grouped together anyplace. By the way - where is Blackhawk these days. I don't seem to have seen much of his work appearing for a while.
Your politicians screwed you over and you are suprised by this?
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
hue of fuzzpaws
- <i>Haruchai</i>
- Posts: 616
- Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:18 am
-
Seeker of Truth
- Ramen
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:37 pm
- Location: Harrogate - North England
I seem to remember was it Cail wistfully remembering a long lost love back home...... and describing what he missed!! 
It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
Terry Pratchett - Jingo
Terry Pratchett - Jingo
-
peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11616
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
- Been thanked: 6 times
Nice one Hue. The lady looks like a pretty tough customer, as would be expected
Seeker of truth, I remember Bannor telling Covenant about the wife he had left behind 2000 years previously and Covenant being aghast with horror - I think he glimpsed the pureness of the Bloodguard's anguish at what their vow had cost them behind Bannor's impasive facade and the inhuman control required to prevent despair from blowing them apart.
Seeker of truth, I remember Bannor telling Covenant about the wife he had left behind 2000 years previously and Covenant being aghast with horror - I think he glimpsed the pureness of the Bloodguard's anguish at what their vow had cost them behind Bannor's impasive facade and the inhuman control required to prevent despair from blowing them apart.
Your politicians screwed you over and you are suprised by this?
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
Linna Heartbooger
- Are you not a sine qua non for a redemption?
- Posts: 3894
- Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:17 pm
- Been thanked: 1 time
That's a pretty cool picture Hue... I really like the set of her jaw...
I wanna see a baby on the hip and a few children crowding around... even I remember that the haruchai were "strong-loined and prolific," and I'm not a major haruchai-nut.
(though if the guys are fighting to win her favor, that explains why the scene is not yet crowded with children.)
I wanna see a baby on the hip and a few children crowding around... even I remember that the haruchai were "strong-loined and prolific," and I'm not a major haruchai-nut.
(though if the guys are fighting to win her favor, that explains why the scene is not yet crowded with children.)
"People without hope not only don't write novels, but what is more to the point, they don't read them.
They don't take long looks at anything, because they lack the courage.
The way to despair is to refuse to have any kind of experience, and the novel, of course, is a way to have experience."
-Flannery O'Connor
"In spite of much that militates against quietness there are people who still read books. They are the people who keep me going."
-Elisabeth Elliot, Preface, "A Chance to Die: The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael"
They don't take long looks at anything, because they lack the courage.
The way to despair is to refuse to have any kind of experience, and the novel, of course, is a way to have experience."
-Flannery O'Connor
"In spite of much that militates against quietness there are people who still read books. They are the people who keep me going."
-Elisabeth Elliot, Preface, "A Chance to Die: The Life and Legacy of Amy Carmichael"
-
Orlion
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 6666
- Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:30 am
- Location: Getting there...
- Been thanked: 1 time
Or fighting for the right to face off against her. I kinda viewed the Haruchai as being Spartan like. I'm sure the women know how to fight, but would only so so if the homestead were attacked.
'Tis dream to think that Reason can
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
Govern the reasoning creature, man.
- Herman Melville
I am Lazarus, come from the dead,
Come back to tell you all, I shall tell you all!
"All creation is a huge, ornate, imaginary, and unintended fiction; if it could be deciphered it would yield a single shocking word."
-John Crowley
-
peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11616
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
- Been thanked: 6 times
We may possibly be getting this all wrong here.
Think of it in terms of survival strategy in the face of a VERY hostile living environment. What would most likely i) propogate a given individuals genes and ii) ensure the continuation of the race.
The combative nature of the Haruchai, who would instantly fight each other on meeting - even of their own tribe members if the other were not available (see Gilden Fire for details) - must have been a way of screening out weak (and therefor potentially damaging to the race as a whole) individuals. The rigours of the terrain they lived in would demand no less an unforgiving strategy if survival were to be ensured.
What then would the winning, let's call him alpha male do. In all likelyhood he would gather as many females around him as he could effecttively serve and ensure the survival of their young through childhood and adolescence. The females would want to be mated to the strongest male and thus would fight amongst themselves to win the attention of the strongest males.
So over time a graded strucrure would come to pass where the stongest males would have harems of the strongest femails. As you went down the males in terms of 'fitness to survive' they would hold smaller and smaller harems until you reached the bottom end where there would be unalighned males who would roam around atempting to win mates where they could or pick up with unpaired femails. (Homosexuality may appear in this grouping as a survival strategy to 'mop up' unused and potentially destructive sexual agression). The 'sucess of failure' in this group may be greater than would be imagined - with some 'low grade' males actually doing very well by concentrating on the mating of analighned females.
The nature of the battles between males would always ensure a higher number of females than males in the race as a whole and thus the harem structure would be well supplied.
Wow - it all sounds perfectly brutal when put like that!
Think of it in terms of survival strategy in the face of a VERY hostile living environment. What would most likely i) propogate a given individuals genes and ii) ensure the continuation of the race.
The combative nature of the Haruchai, who would instantly fight each other on meeting - even of their own tribe members if the other were not available (see Gilden Fire for details) - must have been a way of screening out weak (and therefor potentially damaging to the race as a whole) individuals. The rigours of the terrain they lived in would demand no less an unforgiving strategy if survival were to be ensured.
What then would the winning, let's call him alpha male do. In all likelyhood he would gather as many females around him as he could effecttively serve and ensure the survival of their young through childhood and adolescence. The females would want to be mated to the strongest male and thus would fight amongst themselves to win the attention of the strongest males.
So over time a graded strucrure would come to pass where the stongest males would have harems of the strongest femails. As you went down the males in terms of 'fitness to survive' they would hold smaller and smaller harems until you reached the bottom end where there would be unalighned males who would roam around atempting to win mates where they could or pick up with unpaired femails. (Homosexuality may appear in this grouping as a survival strategy to 'mop up' unused and potentially destructive sexual agression). The 'sucess of failure' in this group may be greater than would be imagined - with some 'low grade' males actually doing very well by concentrating on the mating of analighned females.
The nature of the battles between males would always ensure a higher number of females than males in the race as a whole and thus the harem structure would be well supplied.
Wow - it all sounds perfectly brutal when put like that!
Your politicians screwed you over and you are suprised by this?
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
Vraith
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 10621
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: everywhere, all the time
Interesting, and yes pretty brutal, as you say.
But there are some things that will modify it, make it more complex than that...and less bloody.
For one, the mind-link points to a strong social survival need...it is the mechanism to meet that need. The strength of the individualism we see in the haruchai is because of, not opposed to, their essential communism.
Also, combat skills do not directly demonstrate, are only loosely attached to, physical environmental survival.
[Bruce Lee can kick the crap out of Kareem...but who'd win on the court?...and Phelps would kill them both in the pool].
And while there's probably some theoretical minimum strength/speed/endurance need, truly dangerous environments [like mountains] favor other attributes even more than the physical.
As well, we know that while they value combat as a challenge, and use it to make some decisions, AFAIK they do not fight each other to the death, and the loss of a fight affects some positions/status but it rarely alters all facets of respect/status. Even Stave, as outcast, is granted some tacit status/respect afterwards.
Last, maybe most important: Given the proclaimed "passion," and their commitment, I find it difficult to imagine men or women among them sharing wives/husbands...or leaving the decision to someone else or to a particular event/competition. They would choose, not defer.
But there are some things that will modify it, make it more complex than that...and less bloody.
For one, the mind-link points to a strong social survival need...it is the mechanism to meet that need. The strength of the individualism we see in the haruchai is because of, not opposed to, their essential communism.
Also, combat skills do not directly demonstrate, are only loosely attached to, physical environmental survival.
[Bruce Lee can kick the crap out of Kareem...but who'd win on the court?...and Phelps would kill them both in the pool].
And while there's probably some theoretical minimum strength/speed/endurance need, truly dangerous environments [like mountains] favor other attributes even more than the physical.
As well, we know that while they value combat as a challenge, and use it to make some decisions, AFAIK they do not fight each other to the death, and the loss of a fight affects some positions/status but it rarely alters all facets of respect/status. Even Stave, as outcast, is granted some tacit status/respect afterwards.
Last, maybe most important: Given the proclaimed "passion," and their commitment, I find it difficult to imagine men or women among them sharing wives/husbands...or leaving the decision to someone else or to a particular event/competition. They would choose, not defer.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
-
peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11616
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
- Been thanked: 6 times
Gosh Vraith - how stupid of me. I had totally forgotten the 'mindspeak' of the haruchai, which of course totally invalidates the model I had constructed above! No Haruchai is ever really isolated in the sense that say we are when out of sight/ hearing of our fellow men. The fighting could well be as you say, more of a ritual nature than truly combative even up in the remote fastness of the Westron range.
Re your last point I must say I prefer the idea of monogamous relationships from an 'aesthetic' sense of who I 'want the Haruchai to be'. The idea of a Haruchai male forever and unquestionably commited to his partner for ever and a day sits well with the known charachteristics of unswerving loyalty and service that we cherish. However we must remember that the Bloodguard abandonned their wives and children - forever! So clearly some things at least went above their 'passion and commitment' to their wives and children. (The 'spartan' thing of tossing weakly children to their deaths in the pit makes me shudder if applied to the Haruchai - but they were not tolerant of weakness if I picture them correctly.) And lastly I cannot help but remember a visit I made to Tibet a number of years ago (which mountain people always remind me of the Haruchai to some extent) and saw for myself the polyandry practiced whereby if a girl married the older brother of a family the younger male siblings would also have acess to her. This was I believe more to do with keeping land together in undivided units than lack of partner availability, but as I recall if the girl fell pregnant the child was aughtomatically assumed to be the progeny of the oldest brother. There was certainly no stigma to the Tibetans attached to this type of relationship which to them was the norm, though to me it was a slightly odd arrangement. Thus I concieve of the Haruchai being able to adopt many and varied posibble relationship structures that to us might appear unusual but to them, in the harshness of their mountain homes, would make perfect sense.
Re your last point I must say I prefer the idea of monogamous relationships from an 'aesthetic' sense of who I 'want the Haruchai to be'. The idea of a Haruchai male forever and unquestionably commited to his partner for ever and a day sits well with the known charachteristics of unswerving loyalty and service that we cherish. However we must remember that the Bloodguard abandonned their wives and children - forever! So clearly some things at least went above their 'passion and commitment' to their wives and children. (The 'spartan' thing of tossing weakly children to their deaths in the pit makes me shudder if applied to the Haruchai - but they were not tolerant of weakness if I picture them correctly.) And lastly I cannot help but remember a visit I made to Tibet a number of years ago (which mountain people always remind me of the Haruchai to some extent) and saw for myself the polyandry practiced whereby if a girl married the older brother of a family the younger male siblings would also have acess to her. This was I believe more to do with keeping land together in undivided units than lack of partner availability, but as I recall if the girl fell pregnant the child was aughtomatically assumed to be the progeny of the oldest brother. There was certainly no stigma to the Tibetans attached to this type of relationship which to them was the norm, though to me it was a slightly odd arrangement. Thus I concieve of the Haruchai being able to adopt many and varied posibble relationship structures that to us might appear unusual but to them, in the harshness of their mountain homes, would make perfect sense.
Your politicians screwed you over and you are suprised by this?
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
Vraith
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 10621
- Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:03 pm
- Location: everywhere, all the time
I see the possibility for what you say on mating.
But there's some evidence that the Bloodguard vow exceeded what they expected it to be...and it certainly caused them pain.
And all their commitments seem to be singular.
And it seems to me that among themselves, they know each other in ways that we can't possibly imagine...perhaps that makes them more accepting of fluid forms for family/mates, but I suspect it actually makes finding the 'one true soulmate' more likely/common, both to happen and to be real, than for those of us who can't 'speak' this way.
But there's some evidence that the Bloodguard vow exceeded what they expected it to be...and it certainly caused them pain.
And all their commitments seem to be singular.
And it seems to me that among themselves, they know each other in ways that we can't possibly imagine...perhaps that makes them more accepting of fluid forms for family/mates, but I suspect it actually makes finding the 'one true soulmate' more likely/common, both to happen and to be real, than for those of us who can't 'speak' this way.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler]
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass.
"Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation."
the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
-
peter
- The Gap Into Spam
- Posts: 11616
- Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 10:08 am
- Location: Another time. Another place.
- Been thanked: 6 times
Do you mean the males Ninjaboy, or the female. In the c\ase of the males I would say yes - I've always visualised them as short and very powerfull, but I think the female hits the spot bang on.
Your politicians screwed you over and you are suprised by this?
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
....and the glory of the world becomes less than it was....
'Have we not served you well'
'Of course - you know you have.'
'Then let it end.'
We are the Bloodguard
-
Fist and Faith
- Magister Vitae
- Posts: 23742
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 8:14 pm
- Has thanked: 7 times
- Been thanked: 34 times
