Trayvon Martin Shooting

[MsMary]

Surveillance Shows George Zimmerman on the night he killed Trayvon Martin

[Avatar]

Thank you MsMary.

News reports that cited anonymous police sources said Zimmerman told police that Trayvon decked the neighborhood watch volunteer and slammed his head on the concrete. Zimmerman’s attorney Craig Sonner has told television networks that the neighborhood watch volunteer’s nose was broken and he was left with a gash on the back of his head that would have required stitches had he gone to the doctor in time.

But there are no visible bruises on his face or cuts on the back of his shaved head in the video, and his shirt doesn’t appear to have blood on it in the front or back. There does not appear to be any grass on his jacket, as indicated in the police report.

The video was authenticated by the city of Sanford public information office. Although it’s unclear what time it was taken, it was likely taken after Zimmerman was administered first aid at the shooting scene.

--A

[Prebe]

If you do a web search however you will discover that black-on-white is far more common than the reverse, though as it is discordant with the metanarrative of the media,

Thank you for posting a link that completely disproves your own guess (complete with rant on black community pimps), though perhaps you could have made an effort to point it out

www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2009/data/table_05.html

Omission remedied.

[sgt.null]

the emt's report would clear up Zimmerman's injuries or lack of injuries.

also interesting that while people complain that Martin's pic is outdated. turns out that Zimmerman's photo is also outdated. showing him pudgy and unthreatening, while the video shows him to be kind of buff and maybe a wee bit threatening if he were to come up on someone and demand papers.

[Prebe]

Just saw the video. If he's had a gash in the back of his head "requiring stiches, had he gone to the doctor in time" (odd sentence if you think about it) he's not just a "white hispanic" his f*cking Wolverine!

Edit: Now they are also trying to character-assasinate a completely unrelated policeman using updates from social media.

[Cail]

Amazing that people from all walks of life can tell whether or not the guy's been in a fight by looking at a crappy video. The police saw him at the scene, and apparently he was treated by EMTs. The police wanted to arrest him, the state's attorney declined to press charges.

The police report (the people who wanted to arrest him) said he was injured. An eyewitness said he was in a fight.

More's gonna come out, and I'll continue to hold my judgement.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

If you do a web search however you will discover that black-on-white is far more common than the reverse, though as it is discordant with the metanarrative of the media,

Thank you for posting a link that completely disproves your own guess (complete with rant on black community pimps), though perhaps you could have made an effort to point it out

www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2009/data/table_05.html

Omission remedied.

Do some more research.

[Zarathustra]

If you do a web search however you will discover that black-on-white is far more common than the reverse, though as it is discordant with the metanarrative of the media,

Thank you for posting a link that completely disproves your own guess (complete with rant on black community pimps), though perhaps you could have made an effort to point it out

www2.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2009/data/table_05.html

Omission remedied.

Do some more research.

I believe "hate crime" includes more than murders, so that data isn't specifically relevant to the case of a shooting death. I already provided evidence on page 3 of this thread that black on white murders are higher than white on black murders:

Most homicides are intraracial, but the chance of a black being killed by a white or Hispanic is much lower than the chance that a white or Hispanic will be killed by a black. Seventeen percent of what the FBI calls “white” homicide victims in 2009 were killed by blacks, compared to 8 percent of black homicide victims who were killed by “whites.” There were two and a half times as many white and Hispanic victims of black killers in 2009 as there were black victims of white and Hispanic killers, even though the black population is one-sixth that of whites and Hispanics combined. If Hispanics were removed from the category of “white” killers of blacks, the percentage of blacks killed by Anglo whites would plummet, since a significant percentage of what the FBI calls “white”-on-black killings represent gang warfare between Hispanic and black gangs. (Needless to say, there is no reason to think that racism plays a more frequent role in white-on-black killings than in black-on-white killings.)

Blow’s fear that his children will be blown away by a white is particularly ludicrous in New York City. Blacks commit 80 percent of all shootings in the city — as reported by the victims of and witnesses to those shootings — though they are but 23 percent of the population; whites commit 1.4 percent of all shootings, though they are 35 percent of the population. Add Hispanic shootings to the black tally, and you account for 98 percent of all of the city’s gun violence. In New York, as in big cities across the country, the face of violence is overwhelmingly black and Hispanic.

Also, there is a tendency in this country to think that white on black crime is more racially motivated than black on white crime, which could affect the numbers of how "hate crimes" are tallied. Just look at the Zimmerman case: even without evidence, people assume it's a hate crime. But black people commit crimes against whites every day, and yet it barely makes the headlines (unless it's to complain about how unfair the justice system is toward blacks).

[Cail]

For example......

Mother of teen who claims set on fire says 'we're being brushed off'

The mother of a 13-year-old boy who says he was set on fire by two teens said Monday that her son is having a difficult time after he suffered first-degree burns.

"It's hard for him," the boy's mother told KCTV5 Monday. "It's hard for us as a family having to deal with this."

Other media outlets have identified the boy's mother. KCTV5 is not doing so because the boy is a minor and no one has been charged.

Part of the police investigation has included attempting to verify the veracity of the boy's claims.

This prompted the boy's mother earlier this month to complain that police were treating her son as a suspect.

"It's very frustrating because I feel like we're being brushed off and there's nothing that is happening for us," the mother said Monday.

But in a news conference held last month, detectives said what the boy experienced was a particularly heinous crime.

The case drew national attention last month because the boy is white and he said the two teen boys who set him on fire were African-Americans.

Kansas City Police Sgt. Stacey Graves said Monday that the investigation is ongoing.

"This is not an incident we take lightly," Graves said. "Detectives have reached out to the community and members of the school district in the course of this investigation to learn as much as they can about what occurred and may have led up to the assault and they are still doing that today."

The boy says he was walking home from East High School when two teens he didn't know began to follow him.

According to the police report, the boy said he made it the front porch of his home on Quincy Avenue when one suspect physically barred him from entering. The second suspect grabbed a red gallon gasoline can and said, "This is what you get."

The second teen then used a light to ignite the gasoline, which "produced a large fireball burning the face and hair" of the victim, according to a Kansas City Police Department report.

Other media outlets have reported that one of the suspects said, "You get what you deserve, white boy."

That was not in the police report, and the boy's mother had spoken publicly with KCTV5 before Monday. As a result, KCTV5 did not previously report that statement.

The mother explained Monday that her son confided in her what the suspect said while he was in the hospital. She said he didn't tell police those specific words because he was too upset at the time, which is why it wasn't reflected in the police report.

The boy's allegations have drawn particular attention across the country in the wake of the shooting death of a Florida teen.

The Kansas City case pales in comparison to the death of Trayvon Martin, the local boy's mother said. But she said it is a good reminder to look out for children.

"It's a horrible tragedy and my heart definitely goes out to Trayvon and their family," she said. "I hope they get answers to everything they want. But we do too here in Kansas City want all the answers we need to help us here to make sure the city's not as violent anymore."

[Hashi Lebwohl]

The security video does seem to contradict the account of the people who administered first aid to Mr. Zimmermann on the scene. This serves as more proof that he should just accept being arrested, get arraigned, and let everything come out in sworn testimony.

Cail, that is one of many cases receiving no media attention whatsoever even though it is just as bad as Mr. Martin's shooting. One wonders why this case is receiving more attention than any other? It couldn't be because some people have decided to use this case to further their agenda in the media, could it? To date, I have heard calls for review of "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" laws in many states, as well as new calls for gun control legislation.

[wayfriend]

Do some more research.

I believe "hate crime" includes more than murders, so that data isn't specifically relevant to the case of a shooting death. I already provided evidence on page 3 of this thread that black on white murders are higher than white on black murders:[/quote]
Please don't conflate interracial homicide with hate crime. People who are opposed to hate crimes often do, and so it's worth the extra effort not to.

But there are no visible bruises on his face or cuts on the back of his shaved head in the video, and his shirt doesn’t appear to have blood on it in the front or back.

I want to look again at the police report. I hope that it doesn't substantiate the lawyer's claims about blood and injuries. Because if this video introduces doubt about the veracity of the police reports, that's Game Over.

[Cail]

But there are no visible bruises on his face or cuts on the back of his shaved head in the video, and his shirt doesn’t appear to have blood on it in the front or back.

I want to look again at the police report. I hope that it doesn't substantiate the lawyer's claims about blood and injuries. Because if this video introduces doubt about the veracity of the police reports, that's Game Over.

Not necessarily. There's the testimony of the EMTs to consider as well.

[Ananda]

For example......

Mother of teen who claims set on fire says 'we're being brushed off'

The mother of a 13-year-old boy who says he was set on fire by two teens said Monday that her son is having a difficult time after he suffered first-degree burns.

"It's hard for him," the boy's mother told KCTV5 Monday. "It's hard for us as a family having to deal with this."

Other media outlets have identified the boy's mother. KCTV5 is not doing so because the boy is a minor and no one has been charged.

Part of the police investigation has included attempting to verify the veracity of the boy's claims.

This prompted the boy's mother earlier this month to complain that police were treating her son as a suspect.

"It's very frustrating because I feel like we're being brushed off and there's nothing that is happening for us," the mother said Monday.

But in a news conference held last month, detectives said what the boy experienced was a particularly heinous crime.

The case drew national attention last month because the boy is white and he said the two teen boys who set him on fire were African-Americans.

Kansas City Police Sgt. Stacey Graves said Monday that the investigation is ongoing.

"This is not an incident we take lightly," Graves said. "Detectives have reached out to the community and members of the school district in the course of this investigation to learn as much as they can about what occurred and may have led up to the assault and they are still doing that today."

The boy says he was walking home from East High School when two teens he didn't know began to follow him.

According to the police report, the boy said he made it the front porch of his home on Quincy Avenue when one suspect physically barred him from entering. The second suspect grabbed a red gallon gasoline can and said, "This is what you get."

The second teen then used a light to ignite the gasoline, which "produced a large fireball burning the face and hair" of the victim, according to a Kansas City Police Department report.

Other media outlets have reported that one of the suspects said, "You get what you deserve, white boy."

That was not in the police report, and the boy's mother had spoken publicly with KCTV5 before Monday. As a result, KCTV5 did not previously report that statement.

The mother explained Monday that her son confided in her what the suspect said while he was in the hospital. She said he didn't tell police those specific words because he was too upset at the time, which is why it wasn't reflected in the police report.

The boy's allegations have drawn particular attention across the country in the wake of the shooting death of a Florida teen.

The Kansas City case pales in comparison to the death of Trayvon Martin, the local boy's mother said. But she said it is a good reminder to look out for children.

"It's a horrible tragedy and my heart definitely goes out to Trayvon and their family," she said. "I hope they get answers to everything they want. But we do too here in Kansas City want all the answers we need to help us here to make sure the city's not as violent anymore."

Thats horrible. Meanwhile, there is yet more cases of a jilted man in the middle east melting the face off the woman who rejected him and nothing happens to him. People do sick shit all over.

Fakhra, 33, tog livet av sig efter syraattacken
www.expressen.se/nyheter/fakhra-33-tog- ... aattacken/

[wayfriend]

But there are no visible bruises on his face or cuts on the back of his shaved head in the video, and his shirt doesn’t appear to have blood on it in the front or back.

I want to look again at the police report. I hope that it doesn't substantiate the lawyer's claims about blood and injuries. Because if this video introduces doubt about the veracity of the police reports, that's Game Over.

Not necessarily. There's the testimony of the EMTs to consider as well.

Doesn't matter. This case cannot survive a police cover-up in Zimmerman's favor.

[Cail]

I want to look again at the police report. I hope that it doesn't substantiate the lawyer's claims about blood and injuries. Because if this video introduces doubt about the veracity of the police reports, that's Game Over.

Not necessarily. There's the testimony of the EMTs to consider as well.

Doesn't matter. This case cannot survive a police cover-up in Zimmerman's favor.

I don't disagree, however if the EMT's report from that night corroborates the reported injuries, the video is meaningless.

[wayfriend]

... because people will say, well the police may have lied to avoid claims of malfeasance, but no one would ever alter the EMT report to match it?

[Zarathustra]

Please don't conflate interracial homicide with hate crime. People who are opposed to hate crimes often do, and so it's worth the extra effort not to.

Since I was specifically making a distinction between interracial homicide and the linked data--which was hate crime data--your request is a bit strange. Rather than conflating, the entire motivation for my post was to draw the very distinction you've asked me to draw. I felt that Prebe's point (i.e. that hate crimes were higher for white-on-black) missed the distinction that interracial homicide rates are higher for black-on-white. Hence my post.

On the issue of the video ... if there is a police cover-up, that obviously is very very bad. I'm not sure exactly why they'd want to protect a man who has a police record for assaulting an officer, but I guess it's possible that they're all such raving racists that they'd rather protect a cop-assaulter than an innocent black teen. That's some strong racism.

However, the video is obviously insufficient. A treated broken nose won't look substantially different from a normal nose in a poor video shot from a high angle, though one might expect blood on his clothing.

There is evidence that the police saw something on Zimmerman's head and back. Look at what the police are doing as they examine him. One officer looks intently at the back of his head, as if he see something. And then he looks at the back of his jacket, touches it, and then wipes his own hand on his pants as though touching the back of Zim's jacket got something on his hand (like wet grass?). It's not conclusive, but it's worth noting.

[Cail]

... because people will say, well the police may have lied to avoid claims of malfeasance, but no one would ever alter the EMT report to match it?

That would be a very easy thing to verify. You're supposing a conspiracy here to cover something up. There's a reason that most conspiracy theories are bunk: it's because you can always count on people to run their mouths rather than keep things secret.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I concur. That the EMTs and the police were all acting together with Mr. Zimmermann to cover up what really happened is too far-fetched to be believed. This is doubly true since if the claim is that the shooting is racially motivated the FBI will step in and they will uncover said conspiracy...unless you think the FBI is in on the conspiracy, as well.

All those people in a conspiracy against one teenager? Impossible, so we can rule it out. To paraphrase Sherlock Holmes, this leaves only the improbable (or highly probable, in this case) that Mr. Zimmermann shot someone attacking him. That conclusion may be unpalatable to many people but that doesn't mean it isn't true.

[Zarathustra]

..unless you think the FBI is in on the conspiracy, as well.

This conspiracy goes all the way up to the top, I tell you! Oh wait a minute, at the top are two black men. Holder, Obama. So ... this conspiracy goes all the way up to the upper middle, I tell you!

EMTs are medical professionals. I could see how cops might try to cover up their own shoddy police work, but it's hard to believe that medical professionals--who's only responsibility in this case was to treat the man's wounds--would jeopardize their careers by involving themselves in this cover-up.

Did every policeman on the scene stupidly forget that there was a surveillance camera in the police station? Did none of them think to stop at a fast food joint and get some ketchup to squirt on the guy's shirt, if their intentions were to fool everyone?

This is one twist in the saga that will quickly be proven as an over-reaction, and then everyone will conveniently forget that they jumped on it as a smoking gun. It's just too easy to prove/disprove.

But expect a few to cling to the ever-widening conspiracy theory, which will depend upon an ever-increasing number of guilty parties in order to maintain. (It's systemic!) Heck, some people still think that 9/11 was masterminded by Bush, and that we didn't go to the moon.