Meanings of the Names of the Characters?

[duchess of malfi]

I was wondering what meanings or associations the names of the characters might have.

When googling around, I found many sites that used geraden, they were all in German, and seemed to have something to do with geometry.

I also found many sites in another language (not sure which one ) that used the word eremis.

The name Terisa makes me think of the famous St. Theresa, who was a mystic...Myste sounds all dreamy, like the character...a fairy tale princess in a garden of mist and roses...Torrent sounds like a rushing, forceful mountain stream...Elega sounds like a form of the word "elegant"...

Does anyone else think of certain things or people when they hear the names of the characters?

[danlo]

At Bubonicon this year, SRD said that the "power" of his character and place names and how those names affect the reader are his 1st and foremost priority. He was almost at a loss for words when I asked him why the names in Mordant's Need had such a French feel to them. After some examples he agreed to some extent but when I pronounced Ar TA-Jel and told him it reminded me of D'Artangnan and the 3 Musketeers he said, "I've never really thought of it that way and never prononced it that way, but..."

[duchess of malfi]

here is the definition for Tor (and it is very fitting for the Care with its back to the mountains)

tor
n.
A high rock or pile of rocks on the top of a hill.
A rocky peak or hill.
[Middle English, from Old English torr, probably of Celtic origin.]

and here is Orison:

or·i·son
n.
A prayer.
[Middle English orisoun, from Old French orison, from Late Latin rti, rtin-. See oration.]

and for Demesne, the Care that holds Orison:

de·mesne
n.
Law. Possession and use of one's own land.
Manorial land retained for the private use of a feudal lord.
The grounds belonging to a mansion or country house.
An extensive piece of landed property; an estate.
A district; a territory.
A realm; a domain.
[Anglo-French, respelling (probably influenced by French mesne, variant of Anglo-Norman meen, middle, in legal phrase mesne lord, lord who holds a manor of a superior lord), of Middle English demeine from Anglo-Norman, from Old French demaine. See domain.]

[danlo]

Interesting Esmerel was essentially in the valley of two surrounding tors...and see it's all very french! (Mon dieu! )

[duchess of malfi]

Mordant
A chemical substance, usually containing a metallic ion, used to facilitate the fixing of a dye to a fiber. From the earliest days of dyeing, it was observed that for many natural dyes the color imparted to a fabric was enhanced and the fastness (resistance to fading or running) improved if the fabric was first treated with a solution containing a soluble metallic salt of chromium, aluminum, or copper. In the simplest process model, metal ions are incorporated on the surface and within the fibers of the fabric and, upon exposure to dye molecules at the appropriate pH and temperature, form colored metal-dye complexes. The metal ion is called a mordant. The complex formation process is called chelation, and can result in a fast and deeply colored fabric. One of the oldest mordant dyes is alizarin, derived from the root of the madder plant. Chemically, it is an anthraquinone derivative, and the dye color depends upon the metal with which it is complexed; with barium, a blue color is obtained, and with aluminum a rose-red.

mordant [CHEMISTRY] An agent, such as alum, phenol, or aniline, that fixes dyes to tissues, cells, textiles, and other materials by combining with the dye to form an insoluble compound. Also known as dye mordant.
{ mrd·nt }

mordanting assistant [MATERIALS] A chemical used with textile dye mordants to cause decomposition of the mordant and uniform deposition on the fibers; examples are sulfuric, oxalic, and lactic acids.
{ mrd·nt·i sis·tnt }
Relevance Score: 0.72

mordant dye [MATERIALS] Textile dye that requires a mordant (third substance) to bind the dye onto the fiber.
{ mrd·nt d }

mordant rouge [MATERIALS] Aluminum acetate-acetic acid solution used in dyeing and calico printing. Also known as red acetate; red liquor.
{ mrd·nt rüzh }

[danlo]

demesne, land -- territory over which rule or control is exercised; "his domain extended into Europe"; "he made it the law of the land"

[Torrent]

I think, someone said it before: "Geraden" ist the plural of "Gerade", which, as a noun, is the mathematical term for 'straight line' .

"Gerade" used as adjective/adverb means mostly "straight"/"even"/"just" but can also be used in many different (often gramatical or very idiomatic)contexts (and sometimes hard to translate into a single word). I'm going to spare you the details.

I think, I tried to see it as a strange version of the English "Gerald" (or the German "Gerhard"), and I pronounced it the English way (in my head). If someone actually pronounced it the German way it would definitely sound strange.

[Myste]

There's more, too--some names have actual meaning on their own, some are simply evocative--

Elega - elegant
Madin - pronounce this with a long "A" and you get "maiden"
Joyse - "joys"
Saddith - uhm, "sadist"?
Ribuld - (one of the guards) "ribald"
Argus - (another guard) Greek mythology--a giant with a hundred eyes, who had the job of guarding one of Zeus's mistresses. He fought with Hermes, and got changed into a peacock.
Norge - "forge" or "ignore"
Lebbick - Lubbock, TX
Quillon - quiver?
Fessten - fester
Vagel - inveigle
Artagel - D'Artagnan - I'm totally with danlo here "I pronounced Ar TA-Jel and told him it reminded me of D'tangna and the 3 Musketeers"

The lords of the Cares, especially--
The Domne - domain (or "a title for men of Portuguese and Brazilian royalty" AHD)
Perdon - perdition, pardon
Termigan - termagant ("A quarrelsome, scolding woman" AHD)
The Fayle - fail, frail
The Tor - ( I like duchess's definition)

tor
n.
A high rock or pile of rocks on the top of a hill.
A rocky peak or hill.
[Middle English, from Old English torr, probably of Celtic origin.]

Armigite - don't wanna go there....

The ones I could never get were Kragen, Terisa, Geraden, Eremis, and Gilbur

Oh, and American Heritage defines "mordant" as "bitterly sarcastic"

[Torrent]

Kragen = German word for "collar"

The name Eremis reminds me of another Musketeer, I think he was called Aramis.

'Remis' (french) is also a word from Chess (=draw).

And to make things even more confusing: "Eremit" is the German word for hermit. But I never thought of this, while I read MN.

[Myste]

It sort of makes you think...

In the old allegories, the names of the characters generally represented some aspect of the hero's personality, some vice or virtue that either had to be overcome or embraced.

Maybe that's why so many of the lords' names (except for the Domne) have negative connotations. Thinking about AMRT, when Terisa and Geraden go from Care to Care trying to raise support, they have to overcome all sorts of stuff....

6/1/2004--I just found the word "eremite" in TPTP. It's where the word "hermit" comes from, and means "religious recluse". I somehow don't picture Eremis as a religious recluse, but it feels like it makes sense somehow.

[dANdeLION]

Havelock seems to be a city in North Carolina.

[Myste]

[DukkhaWaynhim]

Some of these may have been pointed out already, but here goes anyway:

The Perdon-- perdons is a conjugation of the French verb perdre, which means to lose. Literally, it means "We are losing."

Eremis reminds me of Aramis, which is the brand name for (imo) a cloying men's cologne.

Joyse--the word makes me think of joist, which is a construction support beam for a floor or ceiling.

Termigan-- termagant, which is a brawling or quarrelsome person (in modern language it usually refers to a women).

Monomach-- a monomachy is a duel; fighting in single combat.

Tholden-- Holden means to maintain possession of or defend.

Havelock--- a havelock is a cloth covering for a cap, having a flap to cover and protect the back of the neck.

DukkhaWaynhim [weird, warped, and whelped]

[Ninquelote]

Interesting thread! It's much difficult for me, not being native english speaking, to find out what the names actually means.

Kragen = German word for "collar"

Kragen actually means "the collar" in Swedish too. But I don't think Donaldson knew that.

[Myste]

Hey, everybody, I think I've found Artagel!!

The Faerie Queene, Edmund Spenser

Book III, Canto 3

The Redcrosse knight to Britomart
describeth Artegall:
The wondrous myrrhour, by which she
in loue with him did fall.

[explains what happens in the Canto--the Knight of the Redcrosse describes Sir Artegall to Lady Britomart, who fell in love with the latter after seeing him in her father's magic mirror]

Ne soothlich is it easie for to read,
Where now on earth, or how he may be found;
For he ne wonneth in one certaine stead,
But restlesse walketh all the world around,
Ay doing things, that to his fame redound,
Defending Ladies cause, and Orphans right,
Where so he heares, that any doth confound
Them comfortlesse, through tyranny or might:
So is his soueraine honour raisde to heauens hight.

[He's always wandering around defending women and children, but he never knows where's he's going to hang his hat, and he travels the world to do it all, and it's all just 'cause he's an honorable guy.]

Basically, it comes down to the fact that Sir Artegall is a big toughie, a real knight errant type, and it takes Britomart, a warrior-maid, to tame him.

[danlo]

Coolest find!

[shadowbinding shoe]

Interesting thread

Joyce - could also come from Joust:
1. a. A combat between two mounted knights or men-at-arms using lances; a tilting match.
b. jousts A series of tilting matches; a tournament.
2. A personal competition or combat suggestive of combat with lances:

Darsint - reminds me of Dare, Distinct.

Torrent - a sudden unexpected outpouring.

Esmerel - maybe from Esmeralda (the fickle attractive girl in the 'Hunchback from Notre Dame' who leads the hero to his doom.)

[Mysteweave]

Alend - Ally/Friend

[stonemaybe]

Havelock makes me think of hemlock, and then to herbalist or druid-type person.

[wayfriend]

I found this which is too coincidentally accurate to not be considered.

JOYCE - Name Meaning & Origin

Definition: Lord. From the medieval name Josse, which was derived from the earlier Joceus or Jodocus, Latinized forms of the Breton personal name Iodac, a diminutive of "iudh," meaning lord.

Surname Origin: English, Irish

Alternate Surname Spellings: JOICE, JOISCE, JOSS, JOSSE, JOISS, JOISSE, JOICEY, JOYSEY, JOWSEY

[link]

Another clue to the meaning of Joyse's name is found in the GI, but I'll be dang nabbitted if I can make heads or tails of it.

"Mordant's Need" is more explicitly *about* gender roles and stereotypes than my other stories. Terisa Morgan begins the story with such a frail sense of her own identity that she makes Linden Avery at the beginning of "The Wounded Land" look fully self-actualized. And Mordant itself is gripped by rigid gender stereotypes: the kind of male-dominated quasi-medieval society that we so often find in mediocre fantasy novel. Well, the subsequent story describes how Terisa discovers her own reality as both a person and a woman *while* the culture of Mordant undergoes a profound redefinition of gender roles, predominently as that pertains to the permissable/available roles for women. King Joyse (get it?) sets in motion events which eventually enable his daughters, his wife, and Terisa herself to assume unexpected roles which transform their society.

(10/10/2004)

Perhaps "get it?" refers to "King Lord". But I feel trying to say it has something to do with Joyse's role in breaking down gender stereotypes.