Whilst, needs must, not wrong

Winter is coming...

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[Syl]
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Whilst, needs must, not wrong

Post by [Syl] »

So, with 3.5 hrs of commuting time every day to kill, I broke down and checked out A Dance with Dragons from the library. I tried to give it a fair shake, and while it wasn't as bad as I had thought it might be (though I'd say far from good), I did have some issues with it.

First, the thread title. Was this always present and I didn't notice it until just now? Every time I came across one of these, it jarred me right out of the text. If you're going to use these kinds of archaic connections, they need to be natural and seamless. I wasn't doing a line by line read, so if their use wasn't consistent, I couldn't say, but they did not fit with the rest of the narrative or even the dialogue. Instead, it felt like Martin did a search and replace for "while," "need to," and "correct." It felt like he was trying to cloak himself in Shakespearian associations without following through (though there were a few awkwardly worded sentences like "...and west they rode"), as if a previous link thematically was now out of reach due to the cumbersome dramatis personae. That, or he was just writing like a lazy rennie. But no, one of the Wall chapters had a decidedly Scottish Play-like feel to it, especially when the queen's fool was introduced shortly after.

I'll get to problems with plot later, but it certainly wasn't helped by Martin trying to write too many stories. I don't mean the numerous POVs (though a few really didn't work for me -- some that focused attention off-stage when it should've been on and vice versa, some that didn't seem to necessitate an entire chapter), but that no novel can be helped by making it part captivity narrative, part existential journey, part bildungsroman, part romance, part epic fantasy, etc. Some authors use this technique successfully, giving it extra flavor and depth, and though I know some people will like this, I felt like it muddled the story and gave it an extreme lack of focus.

The first half of the novel was kind of tight. A few small problems aside, I was digging it. Me, I blame AFFC, because right about where he starts to bring it back in, the book falls apart (and probably not coincidentally, I put down AFFC at about the same point). It gets boring. Nothing new is happening, and instead, it begins running in the tread of the last book as well as its own. I'm a big fan of refrains, but suddenly "words are wind" is on every other page, and I feel that way about the rest of book -- it's all just wind; nothing matters. I no longer care about Mereen, Stannis' march, Theon's self-loathing, Daenerys' lusts and polito-romantic dilemmas. What should've been a major event, mounting Drogon, becomes meaningless as she's gone for almost the rest of the book and when she does reappear... blah. I'm even tired of the Wall and the wildlings by the end of it. Worse, Martin (ostensibly) kills on the last major favorite characters, and I'm just thinking, "Yeah, he pretty much deserved it." Maybe he was trying to give the impression of some snapping point, but Jon's decision to go to Winterfell seems like a major break of character. Cersei... who cares (all that hand-wringing got old quick, and the walk was anticlimactic).

The book really sucked the life out of my last week's commute. I finish the book, and there's no moment. No catharsis, no cliffhanger. Just "that's it?"
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Post by Zarathustra »

I pretty much agree with your assessment, Syl. I won't repeat everything I said in my own recent review, but I will second every single point you've made.

However ... there is some doubt about Jon's fate. If that doubt turns out to be well founded, it's just another trick that is getting old.

I can't stand the Queen's fool. I hate him, I do, I do. The single most pointless character in a book of way too many characters.

I don't understand the point of stretching out a narrative between so many characters unless their stories are actually important and reach a satisfying conclusion within each book. This is a soap opera, not a story--full of the same gratuitous sex scenes, backstabbing, character deaths (or "deaths"), and melodrama. I expect some character to get amnesia soon, and his identity to be a secret. Oh wait, maybe that was Theon, at least for a while.

This series should have ended three books ago. Then, if he wanted to continue the stories of individual characters, he could do spin-offs.
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Post by Holsety »

I don't particularly think Jon's decision was OOC. In fact, I think it makes perfect sense for him. He almost went to join Robb at one point, and had to be stopped by other brothers of the Night's Watch. He abandons his vows to save his own life and joins the Wildlings, even if in order to get back to the Watch later. And we know he has strong feelings for Arya, and though the girl he's intending to save by fighting the Boltons isn't Arya, he doesn't know that. Finally, he has shown himself to be strong in the tradition of not swearing fealty to a lord as commander of the Night's Watch with Stannis, and he would have to swear fealty to the Boltons to avoid conflict with them.

I agree with the points you raise otherwise.
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Post by Farm Ur-Ted »

It's been a while since I read it, but the Daenerys/Mereen chapters were absolutely brutal. It would've been a lot better if she'd just kept moving, instead of deciding to hunker down there. Nothing happened. Then, in the next chapter, nothing continued to happen.

I found that Tyrion's self-loathing/self-destructive behavior got really old, really fast. And it was ridiculous that there were two chapters in a row that ended with his life in peril (one when he fell off the boat and was drowning, and the other when he was kidnapped). Martin just seemed really lazy there. I did like it once he hooked up with Penny, though.

I was pretty pissed when characters from AFFC started getting POV chapters. I'd much rather read about Jon, Tyrion, or Bran than frickin' Victarion or Cersei.

I guess the part that absolutely killed me in the book was the fact that Martin spent the first 3 quarters of the narrative building towards the battle for Winterfell. And then he punted on it. I really could not believe that the battle wasn't there.

On the whole, I actually liked it better than AFFC, but it still was not a complete novel. It was highly fractured. Jeez, there was the scene in the beginning between Samwell and Jon that was almost verbatim the same in the two books. How could GRRM be so sloppy? You'd think you could write a new first chapter for Jon.
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Post by SerScot »

The Dany section of ADWD could, and should, have been cut in half. Every Dany chapter, but one, dragged interminably.
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Post by JazFusion »

I'm still only half-way through the book. I just can't finish it. I spoiled everything for myself plot-wise. Not that there was much going on, anyways.

I really enjoyed AFFC. I though it was a good balance after the whirlwind that was ASOS. But ADWD continued the slow pace that was in AFFC. I felt he should have wrapped up so much more.

I'm starting to feel like he should rename the series to "Hydra".
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Post by MsMary »

How did you spoil it for yourself plotwise, Jaz? I don't get that.

I had to read the whole thing, couldn't stop myself. ;)

Renaming it the "Hydra", that cracked me the heck up. :lol:
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Post by JazFusion »

MsMary wrote:How did you spoil it for yourself plotwise, Jaz? I don't get that.

I had to read the whole thing, couldn't stop myself. ;)

Renaming it the "Hydra", that cracked me the heck up. :lol:
I read the wiki on all the plot in ADWD. I just...one day I'll get through the book. One day.
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