Cail's big honking Rush thread

[Cail]

I'm amazed that y'all aren't falling all over yourselves over T4E (the song). This is such an amazing display of everything that's awesome about Rush. Same can be said for Resist, Time & Motion, and Driven.

Seriously, I just don't get the disdain this album gets.

[dANdeLION]

I like it, always have. I can remember hearing the whole cd (or maybe just most of it) on a radio station before it was released, along with a dissertation on each song, and the cd as a whole. I wish I had recorded that......

[Cail]

I'd love to hear that.

[Mortice Root]

I'd agree dAN, that would be something I'd like to hear also.

As far as the album as a whole goes, it just comes down to numbers for me.... Yeah, I really enjoy some of it, the four you mentioned, Cail, plus Virtuality. T4E (song) and Virtuality aren't as striking for me as the other three (Driven, T&M and Resist) but still good. It's just that that's 5 songs out of 11. The other 6 just don't do much for me - so it's over half the record that I don't much care for.

But the good tunes are really good.

[Zarathustra]

I remember the band doing that for counterparts.

[Zarathustra]

So I went back and listened to T4E, trying to hear it through Cail's ears. I did pick up some more positive stuff this time around, for the first two songs at least. The music is pretty interesting, the way the bass and guitar are working off of each other to produce the melody. And the drums find a nice place in between. While these two songs are interesting, I feel there is something restrained about them. They never really seem to let loose, but remain in a safe groove. The bass solo in Driven is nice and fat in its tone. I do love that. The way it leads into the guitar solo is the best "letting loose" moment on the CD.

But what really bugs me about this CD is Geddy's singing. I think I've finally put my finger on it, especially after listening to Clockwork Angels so much recently. He is the most restrained element on the whole disc. No passion or taking risks at all. Combined with restrained playing, the whole think sounds anemic. And when we get to songs like The Color of Right and Half the World, this becomes the dominant theme.

The best part for me was Time and Motion. That's nice. Cail's right: hard and dissonant. Kind of like Spindrift.

But then with Totem right after, I couldn't take anymore. I had to stop it and put CA on to cleanse my sonic palate.

[Cail]

Well, at least you gave it a shot. I can't agree with your characterization of the vocals, and would point to Resist in particular which I think defies your description. No, the playing lacks the abandon and urgency that Courterparts has, but it's not Counterparts, it's generally more biased towards conventional structure (though Time & Motion defies that).

T4E is easily in my top 5 Rush albums. Catch me in the right mood, top 3. It's made it impossible to get through Vapor Trails. I'll get the review up this weekend I think, but I'm tempted to make it, "it sucks". It'll be a short one, that's for sure.

[Cail]

Vapor Trails:

Or as I like to call it, a swing and a miss.


This is literally the hardest one of these I've written. This is an album that I want to love, embrace, and feel passionate about. I don't. So much has been written about the issues with the recording, there's little point in beating that horse any further, but.....This is a horribly recorded album, and it's borderline unlistenable. It's not just the well-documented mastering loudness issue either, I don't think the album was produced and recorded well in the first place.

And that makes it very difficult to be objective about the quality of the songs themselves. The recording is so bad that it's difficult to make out what's being played. This is the first time I've gone to Wikipedia to try and get a sense of what happened, and one big thing stands out.....A lot of the record was pieced together using computers, and I can hear where things feel like they were pieced together.

At any rate....

One Little Victory - OK, we're definitely not testing for echo again. The drums sound very natural, and the interplay between them and the guitars at the beginning are downright punk-ish. I don't care for the processing applied to Geddy's voice. But the song's got a nice immediacy.

Ceiling Unlimited - I'm hearing U2, but not good U2. Ugh, just not getting this one at all. Music & lyrics just don't seem to work well together here at all.

Ghost Rider - I have to like this song, it's about riding. And about that deeply cathartic place that riders go to. And about the terrible losses that Neil suffered. But I don't. I don't like Ged's singing, I don't like the music. The lyrics are fantastic, but they can't save this clunker.

Peaceable Kingdom - Damn the recording, this is a good, possibly great, song trying to escape. Reminds me a little of King's X. I still think there's way too much processing going on with Ged's voice. Had this been recorded for Counterparts or T4E, it would have been awesome. As it stands, there are a couple of verses where I can practically hear the edits.

The Stars Look Down - Wow. Wish there was only one Geddy singing, but oh well. Really strong lyrics, makes a nice companion to Time & Motion. I like the repeated refrain (but then again, I like Half the World too). I'd like to hear this live, I think it'd translate well.

How It Is - Strong lyrics again, but lackluster music. Feels like something I would have heard on college radio in the late '80s....And that's not a compliment.

Vapor Trail - A nice, simple song. Takes an out-of-place left turn at the "horizon to horizon" verse, but this isn't a terrible song. I can actually make out individual bass notes, so that's a plus.

Secret Touch - Nice intensity, but the lousy recording results in a wall of noise. The last two lines are just killer.....

There is never love without pain
Life is a power that remains

Earthshine - The lyrics read like something that Neil was describing on the phone to someone. Utilizing the DLLLS, I can ignore them and dangit, this isn't bad at all.

Sweet Miracle - Love the music, hate Ged's vocal delivery everywhere but the chorus. This is a killer song, and the producer should be flogged for letting Ged get away with the weak singing during the verses.

Nocturne - Iron Maiden did this concept far, far better with Dream of Mirrors. Still, there's some interesting stuff here, it just feels too pieced-together.

Freeze (Part IV of 'Fear') - I've got nothing. Not as bad as Tai Shan, but this is pretty bad.

Out Of The Cradle - Odd mix between New World Man, Marathon, and Hey, Hey We're the Monkees. Awful.


It's no surprise that the lyrics are dark on this record, darker than P/G even. I'm glad the band got back together, and I'm glad that Neil was able to use this record as a way of exorcising his demons. But...

This is my least favorite Rush album, even more so than HYF or Power Windows. Taking aside the awful sound quality, production, and arrangement, the songs just don't flow well. There's no grove like on Counterparts, no looseness like on Permanent Waves or P/G. No incendiary playing like on T4E.

Musically, this is a throwback to the late-'80s heyday of MTV's 120 Minutes....Which is an interesting direction for Rush to have gone in circa 2002. What's even more interesting is that there are no synthesizers on this record at all...Something I'd really like to hear....But I can't through all the sonic mud.

Glad they came back, but I'm also very, very glad this stinker wasn't their last record. Had it been recorded better, my impression of the album would be better, but in it's clipped, compressed state, the band looses all nuance.

[Zarathustra]

Yeah, the mastering isn't the only problem. I think many of the tracks were original demos recorded in the home studios of Ged and Alex ... recorded too hot. They liked the intensity, so they kept them instead of redoing them, and then added a wall of noise on top of that. I don't think the sound quality issue can be overstated. I liked this album anyway, but there's no way you can appreciate the songs without hearing them properly. It's like looking at a Van Gogh through a cracked and dirty window.

However, I've heard this album how most have not. On the Counterparts message board, three members have "remastered" it themselves, using state-of-the-art audio software. They've restored clipped peaks, tweaked the EQ, and tons of other stuff I don't understand. It sounds damn good. You can actually hear individual instruments and tracks. There is space between. There are layers of noodling that you probably never noticed. If anyone is interested, I'll dig up a link for the free download.

I don't like Ghost Rider, either. Nor One Little Victory. Everything else I like, and a few I love.

In the "love it" category:

Ceiling Unlimited. The verses are a little clunky at first, but after I got used to them in the context of the song they don't bother me. Everything else is awesome, especially the jam in the middle. This song rocked live.

Peaceable Kingdom. I totally get the King's X comparison. It's in the fat bass chords. Pinnick gets his tone from a 12-string bass (that's 4 sets of triple coursed octave strings, similar to a 12 string guitar, not extra single strings like a 5 or 6 string bass). Geddy probably got his fat tone with over-dubs.

Vapor Trail. Ominous and sad. Everything is fading, dying. Life is a vapor trail. For a man who lost his wife and only child within the span of a year, I bet things felt exactly like that for a while.

Secret Touch. The live version on S&A Blu-ray is the gold standard for this song, due to sound quality. That middle jam section is just massively heavy, and the beautiful outro with Geddy's noodling kills me every time. The lyrics are also some of the most emotional stuff Neil has ever written. It carries on the theme of loss, especially the aftermath of feeling adrift in life in the aftermath of such loss, but I think that this is the turning point of the CD back toward the land of the loving/living. Neil did find love again, after all. She must have had the secret touch.

Earthshine. Great rockin' tune. I love the multiple Geddy voices on this one, the eerie harmonizing in the verses, leading to a joyous, blissful chorus.

Sweet Miracle. I love that heavy bass at the beginning underneath the clangy/twangy guitar. And I am absolutely in love with the part where Ged sings, "Oh salvation, oh salvation." (We're definitely on the way back toward life by this time.) I think it's the most gorgeous melody Geddy has ever sung, and combined with the ghostly effect on his voice, it sounds as close to angelic as this nerdy Canadian can sound. Sometimes I have to just rewind it and hear it again, it passes so quickly and is only repeated the one time. At first, I wasn't even sure what he was singing; it's hard to make out as he draws out the word, "salvation." In looking at two lyrics sites online, both of them got it wrong and didn't even include that in the transcript. But in the liner notes of the CD, it's right there before, "I wasn't praying for magic." This is the best example of an entire CD worth of the most emotional singing Geddy has done in his career. (Pick any song on this and compare it side-to-side with T4E to see the difference.) The choir-like guitar underneath just shimmers with beauty and poignancy as Alex drives the chord progression through its movement. God, just beautiful.

The rest of the CD is okay. I'd still like to hear a lot of it live that was never played. And I think a remaster would transform it if the original tracks aren't beyond repair.

[Cail]

I've tried and tried to hear your complaints about Ged's vocals on T4E, and I'm not getting it, especially in comparison to VT. VT sounds like it's compensating for a weak vocal performance by stacking layer upon layer of tracks. Granted, the recording quality sucks so there's utterly no nuance in Ged's voice at all, but One Little Victory, Ghost Rider, and huge swaths of Sweet Miracle just sound lazy.

T4E is rapidly ascending to be one of my favorite albums by any band. A big part of that is the dynamicism of the vocals. On Test for Echo, you've got three distinct sections; the "narrative" of the main verse, the "fury" of the "don't touch that dial" bridge, and the "airiness" of the chorus. Counterpoints like that abound on the record, particularly on Time & Motion.

Call Half the World a silly radio-friendly song, but it's a silly radio-friendly song done right. I would happily listen to that song for an hour before I listened to VT again, and that's not just because of the recording quality.

Both Counterparts and T4E have a flow to the songs; a natural motion that propels them forward that makes them good listens. No, the lyrics aren't nearly as personal as they are on VT, nor are they the hippy-dippy Tolkien-inspired BS that plagued their early stuff, nor are they the dense socio-political commentary of 2112.

Counterparts and T4E offer up accessible songs that are masterfully crafted and (mostly) avoid inane lyrics. They also are, I think, the two finest examples of Rush at their recorded peak.

[dlbpharmd]

Poor sound quality is a recurring theme in these posts. Why did a multi-national beloved band like Rush, that has sold more than 40 million albums, ever tolerate such shitty sound quality?

[Cail]

Poor sound quality is a recurring theme in these posts. Why did a multi-national beloved band like Rush, that has sold more than 40 million albums, ever tolerate such shitty sound quality?

The issues I have with their '80s stuff has more to do with stylistic choices than actual sound quality. '80s stuff was thin by design.

Vapor Trails should never have been released as-is. It's mind-boggling to me that no one stopped it from being released.

[dANdeLION]

Ahh, the '80s. It seems every established band was effected by what the new wave bands did. I think Rush was heavily affected, because up until Signals, Terry Brown was their studo guy, so it was really noticeable when he was let go of. ZZ Top was completely ruined by the '80's (IMHO, which is dead-on, IMNSHO), and Yes was too. They went through massive personnel changes around that time, but still, some of their changes were from the way they were mixed. Anyway, those 3 bands were the ones I noticed most back then.

VT was another story. I like the cd, but yeah, when I first listened to it, I was really shocked at the overall sound quality, or lack thereof. I'd definitely like that link, Z.

[Mortice Root]

Vapor Trails -
I really like this one. A lot. It took a while though. When it first came out, it sounded very one dimensional to me, and there wasn't much distinction between the sound of the songs. At least at that time. I remember liking the fire of One Little Victory right from the get go (still love the opening musical section) and enjoying Earthshine, but the rest really seemed to blend together.

It wasn't until years later (after S&A came out) that I really started enjoying this record for it's own sake. I think that my inital problem with it was that the sonic palette sounded similar from song to song (distorted bass chords, lots of highly distorted guitars, and loud drums, no guitar solos). Now, though I've gotten used to it and I find lots of variation within that basic set of sonic colors and lots to like about the records as a whole.

I love the energy - I'd almost say exuberence - that the band is playing with the whole record through. To my ears, it sounds like a band celebrating playing together again, and having a hell of a lot of fun doing it.

My favorite thing about the record though is Alex's playing. Holy crap! This entire record is nothing less than a clinic in rhythm guitar playing. Nary a solo to be found on the whole thing, yet some of most creative and interesting playing that I've heard from him. It seems like every song has between 3-5 rhythm guitar parts, and while they're almost all distorted, each one is slightly different in tone, and they blend togther amazingly to produce a unified whole. I'm just in awe of what he accomplished on this one.

I recognize that everyone says the album sounds bad, but I just don't hear that. Yes, it's mixed loud, but I don't have any problem (now that I'm used to the sound) picking out the varying instruments. (I usually listen on a pair of studio quality headphones). I can see how the "wall of sound" that the record presents might be offputting to some, and I certainly wouldn't want them to sound like this all the time, but for this one record I really like it.

As far as individual songs go, I don't care much for Ghost Rider either (though I feel like I should, given it's obvious importance to Neil), nor do I really think Out Of The Cradle was necessary. Secret Touch on the other hand is one of my absolute favorites of theirs. Victory, Peaceable Kingdom and Ceiling Unlimited are high points, too.

On Retrospective 3 there are remixed versions of One Little Victory and Earthshine for those that are interested. They are substatinally different than the VT versions. I find them an interesting listen, but I don't like them as much - they sound like they've been neutered, IMO - but if you don't like the sound of VT as a whole, they might be worth checking out.

[Zarathustra]

Poor sound quality is a recurring theme in these posts. Why did a multi-national beloved band like Rush, that has sold more than 40 million albums, ever tolerate such shitty sound quality?

It's a general trend in the recording industry of the 21st century, with iPods becoming the main way people listen to music. Nuance is no longer appreciated. It has effected most of the major releases of the past decade, though VT is infamous as perhaps the worst example. It has been called the "loudness wars," by some.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

As for why Rush let this happen, well, they are getting old and probably haven't been kind to their ears over the decades. Maybe they honestly thought it sounded good. Or maybe once the problem was noticed, it was too late to change (after 14 months in the studio). Or they were too attached to the "rawness" of their original jam sessions, and didn't want to lose the magic by rerecording them. They recognize the problem now, however, and keep promising a remaster. Subsequent Rush albums have been better, but they are still compressed and loud compared to CDs of the 80s. I highly recommend the MVI version of Snakes and Arrows (stereo tracks only, not the horrid surround mix), which has higher resolution.

Dan: www.mediafire.com/?72828efkk8agc

I believe I downloaded an earlier version, but this should be the latest. They went through 5 or 6 different iterations. Tinkerers.

Buried in this 24 page discussion is detailed report of their years-long endeavor. There are other threads where the conversation might be more succinct and focused, but I'll leave it to others to search the site if they're interested.

I recognize that everyone says the album sounds bad, but I just don't hear that. Yes, it's mixed loud, but I don't have any problem (now that I'm used to the sound) picking out the varying instruments. (I usually listen on a pair of studio quality headphones). I can see how the "wall of sound" that the record presents might be offputting to some, and I certainly wouldn't want them to sound like this all the time, but for this one record I really like it.

The wall of sound would be fine if recorded and mastered properly. Studio quality headphones should only make the damage more apparent. The digital distortion is an objective flaw, not intentional nor subjective opinion. When the bass drum sounds like kicking a cardboard box, and the cymbals sound like static/sizzle, something is very wrong. Cymbals should shimmer. Bass drum should kick you in the chest without distorting the entire song. I honestly can't listen to the CD for very long without my ears hurting. Even at low volume, I get a headache and ear fatigue.

[Cail]

Thanks for the link!

[Mortice Root]

Agreed - That's a cool link Z, thanks a bunch!

I don't doubt that the digital distortion is there, I just don't recall hearing it to the extent that everyone seems to describe - and I don't just mean here - I've seen the comments other places as well. Maybe my hearing is such that I'm not picking up the high end distortion (on the cymbals) anymore. It's entirely possible.

[dANdeLION]

I don't seem to be able to download or even play any of it.

[Zarathustra]

Dan, are you using Windows Media Player? It's not easy, but it's doable. It's been a few years since I've done it myself, so I forgot all the details.

Here's a FLAC FAQ

As for downloading, I got some problems, too, when I tried a few songs. It said they were copyright protected. But others weren't blocked. That sucks. I'll try to find a better link.

[dANdeLION]

Honestly, I'd rather buy an audio cd to compare it to my existing audio cd. MP3's are convenient, and I have nice computer speakers (and Winamp, Jaango, Media Player, etc.), but my two stereos kick my pc's ass.