What was happening in the Land at the beginning of LFB?

[Krilly]

Considering how much time passes between when TC goes to pay his bills to appearing on the Watch, and the way time passes more quickly in the Land... what would you say was going on at the beginning of the series?

[shadowbinding shoe]

I'd say the short visit to Kiril Threndor with its shining reflective walls parallels the moment he's blinded by the car light before his eyes can blink and the journey/struggle in the clouds parallels his falling to the ground. He hits Kevin's Watch at the same moment he hits the pavement.

[peter]

Considering how much time passes between when TC goes to pay his bills to appearing on the Watch, and the way time passes more quickly in the Land... what would you say was going on at the beginning of the series?

Do you mean at the point we first meet TC striding mechanically down the road when the woman pulls her son out from his path? There are people here on the Watch who are past masters at working out the time parralells between TC's real world and the Land - but I'm not one of them. It is however an interesting question because surely the meeting of the Lords in the Close would give us some clues as to what was going on in the Land in the weeks/months prior to Covenants appearence there. I don't remember the details well enough myself. I know Foamfollower was there to request help with the building of ships for the Unhomed and I think other 'portents' had been seen but that is about all I can say. I await the comments of more learned scholars of the Chrons than I with interest.

[dlbpharmd]

The peoples of the Land were living their lives, oblivious to the danger that was coming.

[Krilly]

Do you mean at the point we first meet TC striding mechanically down the road when the woman pulls her son out from his path?

Yes this, pretty much the events at the very beginning of the book.

[Akasri]

The 3 giant triplets had just recently been born, which is what prompted the giants to send Foamfollower to the Lords.

Drool Rockworm had found the Staff of Law and was starting to play with it a little.

[peter]

If I remember correctly TC passes by the woman and child, walks up the main street of the town past the town hall etc and goes into the telephone company office to pay his bill. He does this (or is told it has already been cleared) and then comes out and begins to walk home. At this point he is knocked down/falls down in front of the speeding(?) car. The headlights become Drools eyes. So we are looking at what, the 20 minutes of TC's worlds time prior to his falling down/meeting Drool. This equates to what, a couple of months (?) of Land time, so yes - the triplets are being born to the Giants, Drool has unearthed the Staff and haven't there been some prtents of the ill to come noted (was this not mentioned when TC was subjected to the truth test on the way to Revelstone. On the wider front yes, people of the Land were going about their business, but behind the scenes Foul must have been planning and anticipating the events to come. It was he after all who directed Drool in the summoning. He must have been choosing his victim (TC) with care, observing the progress of TC's disease and it's effects on his mind. "This is a man", he must have thought, "capable of desecration." (We know also he was right!) Unbeknowns to Foul however, at this very time another pair of eyes must also have been set on Covenant. And behind this pair the thought must have been "Desecration and destuction of beauty indeed, but also of empathy and kindness. There is a paradox in this man that is beyond prediction and you pre-judge his actions at your peril!"

[wayfriend]

If we're talking about an hour of real-world time, then we're talking about two weeks of Land time. So, as Akasri says, we have Foamfollower crossing the Sarangrave on his way to Revelstone. Drool was not only playing with the Staff, I imagine Foul was giving him his final lessons on its uses. (Probably trying to keep an unruly Drool in line, who only wanted to turn the moon red and make sick birds and otherwise give away the game too soon.)

[Aiden Victore]

It has always been my impression that the history of the Land is closely tied to the physical and mental condition of TC that started during the time span in which he wrote his first novel. A period of great inspiration tied to the health and posterity of the Land. Then, as he becomes sick with leprosy, Lord Foul begins to exert his control.

Now at the start of LFB, TC has gotten his life somewhat under control, but the creative spark is gone, and the life of the Land is slowly dying away.

There are other instances too, and I'm sorry that I don't have any concrete examples in front of me (I just started to reread LFB for the 4th time though, so I might have some soon), where I felt like the Land was a mirror of TC's state of mind.

[Krilly]

I agree. I feel there's a deep connection there... whether it's the divorce, the moment leprosy showed itself, or a novel being written (or destroyed).

I asked SD in the gradual interview about TC's importance as a writer to that connection... and while I'm satisfied with the answer, I think he dodged the question (of further note, he mentions he avoided my question for awhile, unsure how to respond).

What caused me to ask it was how the early books seem to hint as some sort of importance to him being a writer. At first he's a successful writer, things go sour, then he burns his newer work in the fireplace. Then at the end of TPTP he becomes a greater than he was and begins writing again. The followering Chronicles mention less and less of this author facet to TC. So I asked the man himself "What gives?". I wonder if this connection will ever be explained...

[peter]

There is also Dr Beresford (I think that was his name at least - the head of the medical practice that Linden joins at the start of TWL) whose rather cryptic comment about there being some other manuscripts as well, is never fully explained.

[shadowbinding shoe]

There is also Dr Beresford (I think that was his name at least - the head of the medical practice that Linden joins at the start of TWL) whose rather cryptic comment about there being some other manuscripts as well, is never fully explained.

Could youi remind me what you're refering to here?

[Vraith]

It has always been my impression that the history of the Land is closely tied to the physical and mental condition of TC that started during the time span in which he wrote his first novel. A period of great inspiration tied to the health and posterity of the Land. Then, as he becomes sick with leprosy, Lord Foul begins to exert his control.

Now at the start of LFB, TC has gotten his life somewhat under control, but the creative spark is gone, and the life of the Land is slowly dying away.

There are other instances too, and I'm sorry that I don't have any concrete examples in front of me (I just started to reread LFB for the 4th time though, so I might have some soon), where I felt like the Land was a mirror of TC's state of mind.

IIRC, someone around here "did the math" on many things...there were damn good time-matches for a couple things related to what you say. From memory, among them: LF moving through the ranks of the Old Lords while TC's illness is still unknown to him, TC's first surgery matching time-wise with Ritual of Desecration.

I think TC wasn't always and only so tightly bound to the world, though...not the alpha and omega...but most of the reasons are Last Chron's hints [well...things in the LC's that I think are hints].

[peter]

There is also Dr Beresford (I think that was his name at least - the head of the medical practice that Linden joins at the start of TWL) whose rather cryptic comment about there being some other manuscripts as well, is never fully explained.

Could youi remind me what you're refering to here?

Sorry Shoe - I started a thread on this one somewhere but can't find it now, and alas my copy of TWL (like all the rest of my TC books) has been borrowed and never returned. Basically when the good doctor is describing TC to Linden for the first time he refers to the powerfull works of fiction that he is producing as compared to his earlier (pre-land experience as we know) works, and then he makes a throwaway comment about there being two or three other works, which the text does not elaborate on. I thought this may have been a veiled reference to the 1st Chrons - a sort of 'wink' from SRD to his earlier readers, but the general respons IIRC to this idea was that it was crap ( ) and the comment was just that - a throw-away line of no significance. (Didn't quite fit with my idea of the way that Donaldson writes but there you have it).

[shadowbinding shoe]

My memory is that his later works weren't Fiction but Ethics books or maybe Philosophy.

If you were right we would need to assume that the Foul cult that attack Covenant at the beginning of the 2nd Chrons were in fact sick fans of Covenant's Land novels.

[peter]

Yes - well, maybe it wasn't the best idea I've aired on the pages over the years (but probably by no means the worst either ).

[Holsety]

If I remember correctly TC passes by the woman and child, walks up the main street of the town past the town hall etc and goes into the telephone company office to pay his bill. He does this (or is told it has already been cleared) and then comes out and begins to walk home. At this point he is knocked down/falls down in front of the speeding(?) car. The headlights become Drools eyes. So we are looking at what, the 20 minutes of TC's worlds time prior to his falling down/meeting Drool. This equates to what, a couple of months (?) of Land time, so yes - the triplets are being born to the Giants, Drool has unearthed the Staff and haven't there been some prtents of the ill to come noted (was this not mentioned when TC was subjected to the truth test on the way to Revelstone. On the wider front yes, people of the Land were going about their business, but behind the scenes Foul must have been planning and anticipating the events to come. It was he after all who directed Drool in the summoning. He must have been choosing his victim (TC) with care, observing the progress of TC's disease and it's effects on his mind. "This is a man", he must have thought, "capable of desecration." (We know also he was right!) Unbeknowns to Foul however, at this very time another pair of eyes must also have been set on Covenant. And behind this pair the thought must have been "Desecration and destuction of beauty indeed, but also of empathy and kindness. There is a paradox in this man that is beyond prediction and you pre-judge his actions at your peril!"

I actually wonder if it isn't the other way around; the Creator selects first and the Despiser laughingly concedes the entrance of a new actor.

[peter]

But was it not the case that The Despiser was via the agency of Drool, the (effective) summoner and the Creator was able only to influence who was actually summoned - and chose TC on the basis of his strengths (and quite possibly weakneses also).

[Akasri]

My original understanding was that Foul looked for anyone that had White Gold and helped Drool to summon him. The Creator influenced that choosing somehow and made sure it was Covenant that was summoned.

On this latest re-read, I'm not so sure. I think Foul was specifically looking for Covenant too - he sure knew a lot about him anyway.

[shadowbinding shoe]

I thought he was a compromise choice. Both the Creator and the Despiser saw potentials in him that made them agree to choose him.