TLD Chap 3: Not Dead to Life and Use

[Vraith]

Would someone care to speculate on the reasons the One Tree is withering now that the Worm is awake?

Perhaps literally, but definitely metaphori/physi]cally, the Worm was its sustenance.
[IIRC, Brinn points at this by saying it is dying FROM the roots, not TO its roots.]

HLT...good call, [or question, as the case may be]. Adding another layer/aspect to that krill stuff: I always thought the stone was orcrest...I think someone pointed out to me that it doesn't say anywhere it is...BUT if it is orcrest, the krill not only has that structure, not only can harm the bodiless [like Viles] it is also naturally potent for spiritual healing, plus whatever "enhancements" have happened.
I thought the Staff and at least one Ring would be part of Jerry building...but I think you're on to something.

[Mighara Sovmadhi]

I find it strange for the One Tree to be withering instead of outright ripped to shreds. What does this tell us about the nature of the Worm's true power? Can it not kill trees? Or at least can it not kill them directly?

[ussusimiel]

I find it strange for the One Tree to be withering instead of outright ripped to shreds. What does this tell us about the nature of the Worm's true power? Can it not kill trees? Or at least can it not kill them directly?

I doubt the One Tree was ever just a 'tree'. The 'Worm' and the 'Tree of Life' are ancient symbols of death and life (think 'serpent' and 'tree' in the Garden of Eden). Life and death are intimately interwoven, with death (the Worm) being foundational and life (the Tree) growing out of it.

There is still life in the One Tree because the waking of the Worm did not immediately destroy the world (as I thought it would (that sneaky old SRD )). The world's end is a bit more drawn out than that, with the life in the Elohim and Rivenrock sustaining it until the Worm devours them.

Here's a thought: could the world of the Land survive if the Worm was somehow driven off into the cosmos, or is the Worm absolutely foundational to the life of the world?

u.

[Mighara Sovmadhi]

I'm just trying to imagine the Worm when it woke up. If it was coiled up around the roots of the One Tree on the Isle, and if it can tangibly devastate the tectonic structure of the Earth enough to trigger a tsunami, I thought its awakening would be like an explosion, which I thought would've just shredded the One Tree.

Let's go back to those motes, the Worm's aura, from TOT. Of course those are terrifically mysterious forces, from the way they appeared to the way they impacted upon Vain and so on. In another thread I argued that the Worm is a song (the song of the Law of Death, if you will), which argument is supported to some extent by the "sonic boom" quality of the motes' detonation as described. I feel like the visible approach of the Worm is going to be very, very loud, like a ringing in the very Earth that builds up and up and up.

Nothing in this process would seem inimical to the slaughter of trees, though. That is, I'm sure trees can be killed by sonic blasts/vibrations (think Vain escaping Findail's trap, or the liberation of the krill). However, despite being at the focal point of such explosive might, the One Tree is withering, not blasted apart. What gives? Well, that one mote did turn Vain's arm partly into wood, wood of the same essence as the One Tree. So something about the Worm's power is "tree-friendly," apparently.

I wonder how petrified wood as a form of stone juxtaposes with the "all about wood and stone" principle Covenant notes in AATE...

[Vraith]

Here's a thought: could the world of the Land survive if the Worm was somehow driven off into the cosmos, or is the Worm absolutely foundational to the life of the world?

u.

Nice question. My first thought is yes...and no.
Ignoring the problem of the mechanics of such a separation [which, btw, MAY be part of the resolution of the tale]:
A world/Land could live/survive...but it would be a different kind.
Basically, it would be "mundane." More like our/TC's world. No Earthpower, no Wild Magic.

Mig S...
Some neat stuff in there.
One thing, though, on your "what gives?"
I don't think the One Tree was physically attached to/growing on the Worm. It was only closer to it than anything else, and fed by the emanations of the Worm's power...the "aura" you mention, if you will.
And, with little evidence except indirect/interpretive of the Isle's sinking in the 2nd, and Brinn's statements:
I don't think the Worm's awakening was explosive. More a sliding/displacement like an earthquake as it yawned, stretched, and began to move.
I do think that its approach will be loud...in the literal sense, cuz hell, it's described as hills-size, and it's swimming and crawling!!
...but in other ways, too...like "visually/magically loud" in the eyes of Healthsense

[Krilly]

Well I suppose the Worm could have delved through the Earth a bit before emerging into the ocean away from the Tree.

More importantly though we still don't know what form the Worm will take. Sure maybe it's, well, a giant worm. Or maybe it's a 100 foot marshmallow man... thanks a lot, Ray.

[Hiro]

Great breakdown! Thanks a lot.

[Frostheart Grueburn]

deleted

[StevieG]

Awesome Frostie! I need to read it again to give a decent response. Brinn knows the hurachai better than any, and with his further education, pinpoints their faults accurately.

Dark as the inside of a bowling ball - love it! I've gotta get on a plane now so will have to come back another time to do it justice.

[danlo]

Just watched the trailer---ready to read chapt 3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frostheart Grueburn]

Thanks StevieG. Appears I had left my Pratchett mode on.


Come on now, other people. Wasn't there anything new to discuss? :/ It's not exactly effortless for a non-native English speaker to type long analyses.
It's vexing to have to mention in about every second post that yes, I actually might want to talk about the contents, considering that this is a discussion board.

[DrPaul]

After seeing the trailer and reading Chapter 3 twice, I conjecture that Covenant will use the krill to destroy turiya Herem. This is based on (a) Brinn's reference to the krill's powers increasing with use and (b) that we already know that the first two uses of the krill as a weapon were to slay the bodies of Ravers (Loric made it and used it to slay the Demondim form of moksha Jehannum and Mhoram used it to slay the Giant form of samadhi Sheol).

The other main thought I've had after Ch. 3 and the trailer is that I'm becoming firmer in my view that the climax of TLD will include the destruction of the Land, the Earth and the current Creation, and that the ultimate stakes of the conflict will be about whether all Creation is ended forever in the way desired by Lord Foul, or whether Covenant, Linden and Jeremiah (and perhaps some of their allies) succeed in defining the terms of a new Creation. Whether, and how, SWMNBN is released and redeemed will also be pivotal.

P.S. Some people have mentioned problems with the link to the trailer. I found that it works for me in Chrome but it takes time to start up.

[DrPaul]

Another thought. I wouldn't be surprised if Brinn has used the word simony in some archaic or obscure sense known only to SRD and those of us who take the time to look up his quaint words and their history in the full-length Oxford Dictionary.

[dlbpharmd]

After seeing the trailer and reading Chapter 3 twice, I conjecture that Covenant will use the krill to destroy turiya Herem. This is based on (a) Brinn's reference to the krill's powers increasing with use and (b) that we already know that the first two uses of the krill as a weapon were to slay the bodies of Ravers (Loric made it and used it to slay the Demondim form of moksha Jehannum and Mhoram used it to slay the Giant form of samadhi Sheol.)

I'd say it is a safe bet.

[Mighara Sovmadhi]

Remember Covenant's threat to atomize one or more Ravers at the end of WGW? (I don't remember if it was one or two.) He said he'd do it with his ring's power. Maybe he'll use the krill to trigger Joan's ring (just imagine that he can't channel wild magic at will anymore but has to use triggers again...) and thereby shred turiya.

[Vraith]

Maybe he'll use the krill to trigger Joan's ring (just imagine that he can't channel wild magic at will anymore but has to use triggers again...) and thereby shred turiya.

In a specific sense, the krill is, always was, potent in its own right when "awake."
But generally speaking, I think you are correct...he does have to use triggers again.
So in this instance, the opposite will happen...because he doesn't have Lore and never has, Ring [most likely, other possibilities perhaps] touches krill, for power to be available to him...but the krill will be the weapon used. Just my opinion, but based on the krill becoming more than it was. It isn't necessary for it to be more, or to be mentioned as it is, if triggering white gold is all that's needed...cuz it has done that before.

As an aside: I've always thought [and I highly doubt I'm the only one, or part of a small group] that his numbness/disease is going to be pivotal. When he tells Linden he needs it, I don't think it is only the little things like holding the krill when it's burning his hands.
It will be important that he blaze beyond control, and be able to stand it...Linden and Jerry are the vectors/controls and devices. [though not as clean/mechanical as that implies, naturally.]

[earthbrah]

I definitely agree that TC will likely need to use a trigger for the ring, and I think he will in turn use the krill as a focus for wild magic. Control over it is not something he's ever had, so with krill in hand I can see how he would think to use it as a sort of wild magic nozzle.