The entire story is a lie. The Creator lies.

[bluefoxicy]

The entire story is a lie.

The history of the Land, the testament of the Creator, is that he created the Land to be perfect, living, beautiful. But he found defects, vile creatures, unforgivable tampering. In a rage, he cast A-Jeroth into the Land during its final forming and sealed him in the Arch of Time.

It's a lie.

It's all lies.

Foul isn't imprisoned in the Arch of Time because he tampered with creation of the Land. He's there because the Creator was pissed at him.

First off, it doesn't make any sense. The Creator is strong enough to imprison A-Jeroth. He would have much better answers to this tampering than locking him into something he loves to do harm he cannot protect against. Locking A-Jeroth into The Land was a mistake, an error of judgment made in a rage.

Second, there was no damage to the land. In ages past, long ago, there were trees and viles and wonders. Ravers were created later in the Land's history, after man destroyed the One Forest. Then the Land created forestals to control the Ravers. A great battle caused the Land's Drop, and poisoning and theurgy created that which spawned the Lurker.

All of this came deep into the Land's early history, long after A-Jeroth's imprisonment.

Third, A-Jeroth isn't the only being of power imprisoned here. There is exactly, exactly one other.

Her name is Diassomer Miniderian.

Diassomer Miniderian,
The Mate of Might and Master's Wife,
all stars' and heavens' chatelaine,
with power over realm and strife,
attended well, the story tells,
to A-Jeroth of the Seven Hells

While the Creator was busy making the land--busy, distracted, and neglectful of other things--his wife became lonely. Mate of Might, all stars' and heavens' chatelaine, power over realm... who would that describe?

Well. She found someone to relieve her loneliness.

The bane is Diassomer Miniderian, the unfaithful wife of the Creator. She is imprisoned in the Land for her infidelity with A-Jeroth, similarly cast into the Land for the Creator's ire. That is the truth behind both of them.

And she has now escaped. Maybe they'll make up.

[TheFallen]

First off, it doesn't make any sense. The Creator is strong enough to imprison A-Jeroth. He would have much better answers to this tampering than locking him into something he loves to do harm he cannot protect against. Locking A-Jeroth into The Land was a mistake, an error of judgment made in a rage.

Well to be fair, we don't know if the Creator is that strong. He's clearly not omnipotent, or He'd have been able to evaporate Foul with a mere snap of his fingers at any stage. He's also clearly not omniscient, or He'd have been aware how Foul was busily corrupting much of His created work at the moment of its creation. Given that Donaldson is keen on yin/yang type balances - Good cannot exist without Evil, Hope without Despair, Love without Despite etc etc - it's more than possible that LF outside the Arch of Time is every bit as strong as and equal to the Creator. Perhaps the latter's only reluctant option was to trap LF under the Arch of Time once He'd noticed the malice LF was busily up to, rather than having him screw with the entire multiverse. And perhaps LF was only able to be trapped because he was busily and gleefully meddling with the Earth and didn't notice the Creator sorrowfully locking the door. Then, having established a set of rules for His Creation, the Creator had pretty much painted Himself into a corner and had to continue to abide by them - or He'd have destroyed everything under the Arch of Time. If He gets directly involved and takes action within the Arch of Time, He invalidates free will - the necessity of choice - and the whole thing comes tumbling down.

(This discussion is starting to become quasi-religious - it exactly mirrors the Christian dilemma of how an omnipotent and ever-loving God can even allow the existence of suffering and Evil. Sounds like one for the Close to me... where's Fist & Faith when you need him?)

Second, there was no damage to the land. In ages past, long ago, there were trees and viles and wonders. Ravers were created later in the Land's history, after man destroyed the One Forest. Then the Land created forestals to control the Ravers. A great battle caused the Land's Drop, and poisoning and theurgy created that which spawned the Lurker.

All of this came deep into the Land's early history, long after A-Jeroth's imprisonment.

I don't see an issue with that. We don't know exactly how the Ravers or the Lurker came into being, but both were probably as a result of some machination of LF's. It probably took LF a bit of time to get his malevolent act together - bear in mind that under the Arch of Time, LF's only real power is that of being able to corrupt and manipulate. He needs other sentient beings to carry out his maleficent designs.

Third, A-Jeroth isn't the only being of power imprisoned here. There is exactly, exactly one other.

Her name is Diassomer Miniderian.

Diassomer Miniderian,
The Mate of Might and Master's Wife,
all stars' and heavens' chatelaine,
with power over realm and strife,
attended well, the story tells,
to A-Jeroth of the Seven Hells

While the Creator was busy making the land--busy, distracted, and neglectful of other things--his wife became lonely. Mate of Might, all stars' and heavens' chatelaine, power over realm... who would that describe?

Well. She found someone to relieve her loneliness.

The bane is Diassomer Miniderian, the unfaithful wife of the Creator. She is imprisoned in the Land for her infidelity with A-Jeroth, similarly cast into the Land for the Creator's ire. That is the truth behind both of them.

And she has now escaped. Maybe they'll make up.

I totally agree with you that the SHE-bane is Diassomer, a corrupted personification of Love fooled and mistreated and thus left in self-loathing anguish. This is also discussed in both the "B*tchslapped" and Story purpose of She Who Must Not Be Named" threads.

[dlbpharmd]

I agree that She should be Diassomer Miniderian, but the text of AATE clearly says she isn't.

[TheFallen]

I agree that She should be Diassomer Miniderian, but the text of AATE clearly says she isn't.

Yeah I know that in AATE, SRD categorically states that Diassomer is merely a part of SHE, but I kind of think he painted himself into a corner on this one. Either that or he's being deliberately unclear.

What do we know about SHE? SHE's clearly a being of immense power, Whose natural habitat is outside the Arch of Time - as demonstrated after being redeemed by Linden a) by Her finding it trivial to slap Lord Foul down and b) by Her return home to outside the Arch. This effectively makes Her a deity of some sort in SRD's universe. The only obvious candidate for that role is Diassomer, the Creator's "wife". Unless SRD is 8 books in suddenly adding to his pantheon.

Maybe he intends us to gather that Diassomer, once tempted and corrupted by LF and then becoming trapped with him under the Arch, evolved in Her anguish into SHE, collecting more and more agonised female souls, until SHE becomes an amalgam of such, the epitome of bitterness and self-loathing. Once Linden shows her the path to self-healing and redemption in releasing the trapped souls into the Demondimspawn, maybe all that's left is Diassomer, purified at last and returned to herself.

Hell, I don't know - but it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[I'm Murrin]

The whole thing falls apart when someone explicitly states that Diassomer is in one of the new Forestals in the epilogue, though. (IIRC. I'll check for the actual quote when I get home.)

[TheFallen]

It's Caer-ur-Mahrtiir (I checked)... but maybe he's guessing.

[I'm Murrin]

I picked up on it when reading because I thought the bane was Diassomer, and I thought Linden actually thought of her as Diassomer at one point during the final confrontation.

But as I've said elsewhere, the fact that there was a third cosmic being alongside the Creation/Despite dichotomy was really poorly explored in the books.

[Horrim Carabal]

the fact that there was a third cosmic being alongside the Creation/Despite dichotomy was really poorly explored in the books.

It's a mystery. I don't mind mysteries to be left at the end. As in - what's Covenant's future? What is my namesake Horrim Carabal going to do next? Will the last Raver become the new Foul? What is the gaddhi watching on TV this season? Stuff like that.

At least TDL didn't leave as many loose ends as Erikson's series did.