I will have to disagree with this assessment. Although both California and Texas once belonged to Mexico, Mexico and Texas have retained a closer relationship in some ways than Mexico and California have. Besides, if the United States falls apart there might be some elements in Mexico who would want to return Texas to Mexico because of how we broke away from them--our separation was much more traumatic than California's departure.
It is only the large cities in Southern California who differ socially from Texas. If things fell apart, California itself would split into two, a Northern and Southern California. Northern California would side with Texas, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, and probably Colorado, not counting anyone else.
SerScot, just because he is a "smug Yankee" doesn't mean that he is incorrect. I may look into that book--could be an interesting read.
I will have to disagree with this assessment. Although both California and Texas once belonged to Mexico, Mexico and Texas have retained a closer relationship in some ways than Mexico and California have. Besides, if the United States falls apart there might be some elements in Mexico who would want to return Texas to Mexico because of how we broke away from them--our separation was much more traumatic than California's departure.
It is only the large cities in Southern California who differ socially from Texas. If things fell apart, California itself would split into two, a Northern and Southern California. Northern California would side with Texas, Nevada, New Mexico, Arizona, and probably Colorado, not counting anyone else.
SerScot, just because he is a "smug Yankee" doesn't mean that he is incorrect. I may look into that book--could be an interesting read.
Hee...I thought you'd disagree with more than that.
But on the first...hell yea, Mexico would want Texas back. It's just that in the dividing world we're talking about, TEXAS wouldn't want to become a Mexican State. Hence, CA will support the Mexican Gov't in any way it can in Mexico's efforts to reclaim Texas. [with much support from folk internal to Texas, but not part of Texas political/power structures.
The "California Divided" thing is really mostly a myth.
Sure, some parts are pretty conservative, and the metro's pretty not...but it ain't as big a deal as people think.
And this "It's only the cities" thing is really starting to bother me [not so much from you, but the play it is getting in general.]
People HAVE to face up to facts and stop saying "It's just those city folk."
For 2 big reasons [lots of little ones I'll ignore]:
Without the big cities, the U.S. is a third-world country.
The big cities aren't an "only." They are the place where most Americans live in or near.
As a matter of fact, if the U.S. weren't as un-democratic as it is, we'd have a far more liberal federal gov't. [are at least Democratic Party Fed. Not so long ago...within my lifetime and probably yours if I recall your rough age correctly, there WERE such things as "conservative Dems." I don't recall, off the top of my head, any liberal Reps...but there surely were a pile of center/moderate ones.]
The book SS mentioned has it's points and its flaws... but [after some thought since he first ever mentioned it] I think it's definitely worth a read if this is a topic that interests you. [people who are committed already to politics by region should almost all take a look at it...except they mostly already know what they think so it won't help.]
Edited for a missing word from typing to fast apparently. Otherwise the para. says the opposite of what I was saying.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Mongnihilo wrote:We are about one hysterical gun control bill away from the end of the union.
People are greatly overestimating the actual power of the Federal government and military. The government exists via obedience and inertia, and the world's greatest military can't even subdue a bunch of goat herders sporting AKs and satellite phones. Consider just how reassuring the idea that the government is all-capable is, and you will begin to understand the depth of the cognitive dissonance that props it up. But that will dry up and blow away like dead leaves in the wind the moment 50,000 gun nuts feel forced to fight back. And I don't mean with concerted military action. I mean with diffuse and dispersed autonomous assassination and terrorism campaigns. And yes, the Feds will buck up and try to put the hammer down, but it will backfire and lead to a popular uprising wherein no government official is safe outside of their own specially created green zone. And yes, they will prioritize security of their own selves over attempting to control the chaos in the whole nation. In this way is the nation led unto anarchy and ruin, and the Federal government to irrelevance.
Naturally this would be a disaster of epic proportions.
There are a number of prophecies that predict the dissolution of the US into five smaller nations. Make of that what you will.
NIHILO!!!
Where have you been? I missed you!
Monsters, they eat
Your kind of meat
And they're moving as far as they can
And as fast as they can
How long would those cities survive without the food and material that come from rural areas?
Hashi,
I wouldn't be suggesting the book if it had no merit in my opinion. My frustration is the author's smugness about his nation of origin at the close of the book.
"Futility is the defining characteristic of life. Pain is proof of existence" - Thomas Covenant
How long would those cities survive without the food and material that come from rural areas?
Not very long...how long would the rural folk survive without the money city folk pay for their products? But that's just life...it is a dynamic, mutually beneficial thing on its own terms.
Until the politics happens.
Look: a young rural white man and a young urban black woman SHOULD be MOSTLY on the same political team.
Because they are getting fucked by the same people.
They may BELIEVE the people fucking them are the political face-folk/office holders/particular party members.
But no.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
But the attitude of those two groups about what Government ahould be doing is very different regardless of how their interests allign. Therefore, they are not really in allignmemt because they want very different things from the Government they complain about.
"Futility is the defining characteristic of life. Pain is proof of existence" - Thomas Covenant
But the attitude of those two groups about what Government ahould be doing is very different regardless of how their interests allign. Therefore, they are not really in allignmemt because they want very different things from the Government they complain about.
They can believe what the want..but their attitudes are factually wrong. Somewhat about themselves, but very much so about the others.
There's no way to do the experiment...but I wish we could.
Everyone stops, right now, "taking" anything from gov't.
Take it ALL away, every gov't benefit.
Watch which whiny fucks beg for help first.
Don't give it to them, and watch what happens.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
Please elaborate. Are you saying small family farmers and their owners are the ones sucking hardest on the government tit?
I have a follow up if the answer is yes. You might be able to guess what it is.
No. In fact I'm trying kinda hard to NOT say that.
I'm trying to say that the tit-sucking meme is itself crap as it is bandied about and targeted.
Rural farmers have a tough row to hoe...
So do urban poor folk.
They constantly blame each others positions/needs/politics for causing the problem...so choose leadership they believe will be their hero in this imaginary [really, truly, it is imaginary] battle.
It all gets distorted. For instance. the conservative thought is "get the gov't out of our business, your regs are killing us...etc."
Put that in place.
In ten years there will be fewer family farms, more corporate farms, more poisonous rivers, less fertile soil.
OTOH, they may well be right that taxes are killing them [haven't looked at exactly how farms other than NY dairy ones many years ago are taxed].
Even if they ARE right that taxes are making bloody wounds...it ain't because they're paying the urban poor who don't do shit. That is factually false. You have to follow the money stream and methods at all the different levels [fed, state, income, property, fuel, school, county, sales, etc., etc.]. Do it, you find that there aren't any farmers supporting welfare queens.
If you follow ALL of it, you find that poor people are supporting rich people.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
The reason corporations are in farming is to get the subsidies. It's not profitable on the large scale otherwise.
And everyone, every freaking body, needs to think about that.
Really look at every piece.
Cuz there is something really strange going on, isn't there?
Yep, there is.
[spoiler]Sig-man, Libtard, Stupid piece of shit. change your text color to brown. Mr. Reliable, bullshit-slinging liarFucker-user.[/spoiler] the difference between evidence and sources: whether they come from the horse's mouth or a horse's ass. "Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation." the hyperbole is a beauty...for we are then allowed to say a little more than the truth...and language is more efficient when it goes beyond reality than when it stops short of it.
I've said that about farming for years. FDRs subsidies were supposed to save the family farm and gurantee our food supply. They have killed the family farm and crapped up our food supply with over reliance on mono-culture and artificial fertilizers.
Yes, something funkyjis going on.
"Futility is the defining characteristic of life. Pain is proof of existence" - Thomas Covenant
Vraith, why do you think large cities are primarily populated by people who vote Democrat?
Yes, the Democrats and Republicans have flipped positions for the most part in the last 50 years. A majority of Southern Democrats in Congress in 1964 voted against the Civil Rights Act which their own President was endorsing; this isn't a wild claim because you can look up the vote record for yourself easily enough to verify this.
Vraith wrote:If you follow ALL of it, you find that poor people are supporting rich people.
I concur. This hasn't changed since we developed the concept of money and settled into cities.
Mongnihilo wrote:We are about one hysterical gun control bill away from the end of the union.
People are greatly overestimating the actual power of the Federal government and military. The government exists via obedience and inertia, and the world's greatest military can't even subdue a bunch of goat herders sporting AKs and satellite phones. Consider just how reassuring the idea that the government is all-capable is, and you will begin to understand the depth of the cognitive dissonance that props it up. But that will dry up and blow away like dead leaves in the wind the moment 50,000 gun nuts feel forced to fight back. And I don't mean with concerted military action. I mean with diffuse and dispersed autonomous assassination and terrorism campaigns. And yes, the Feds will buck up and try to put the hammer down, but it will backfire and lead to a popular uprising wherein no government official is safe outside of their own specially created green zone. And yes, they will prioritize security of their own selves over attempting to control the chaos in the whole nation. In this way is the nation led unto anarchy and ruin, and the Federal government to irrelevance.
Naturally this would be a disaster of epic proportions.
There are a number of prophecies that predict the dissolution of the US into five smaller nations. Make of that what you will.
NIHILO!!!
Where have you been? I missed you!
I missed you too, glad you're back. I feared we'd lost you. What happened?
