Is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie?

[Ur Dead]

With the making of Band of Brothers.. The Pacific and of course
Game of Thrones a set of mini-series could bring all
the books to the small screen...

HBO anybody??

[Doug0915]

I've had a fantasy of making this series into a series, tv or movie, for years and years. Either by becoming a director or a billionaire who can order improbable things done and have it happen...

But, does anyone else think that these would be ridiculously hard to faithfully adapt? Even if the plot content is true, the impact couldn't possibly be? So much of the series is internal, and emotional, psychological...

There would have to be like, an over-running narration to represent the characters thoughts over the whole series, and even then, how could they represent some of the more beautiful things? Like a person who has health sense and can see health, beauty, and emotion?

Not to mention the emotion the characters almost always have on their faces, even to regular vision.

I really don't want to offend anyone, or derail this into a debate about actors, so I will just say, most actors you ever hear about, don't really 'act'. I think the best actors are the type-cast ones, who do something so well they are stuck in it forever, and even if they attempt to, they rarely are allowed to breech that prison.

Plus all the needed special effects...I really think the reason Game of Thrones got adapted for the screen is that for fantasy, the magical/non human aspects of it are so low. And it was just easier to adapt, sort of the exact opposite of this series?

One thing that occurred to me while reading the books. There is a SIGNIFICANT amount of horror if you tried to make them into a movie. Sure, LOTR had some of that but some of the things in the First and Second Chronicles are downright gruesome.

If you cut the Horror out to make a mini-series or movie it just wouldn't be the same.

[peter]

I just posted elsewhere that I think it would make a great pc/consul game!

[SleeplessOne]

I've had a fantasy of making this series into a series, tv or movie, for years and years. Either by becoming a director or a billionaire who can order improbable things done and have it happen...

But, does anyone else think that these would be ridiculously hard to faithfully adapt? Even if the plot content is true, the impact couldn't possibly be? So much of the series is internal, and emotional, psychological...

There would have to be like, an over-running narration to represent the characters thoughts over the whole series, and even then, how could they represent some of the more beautiful things? Like a person who has health sense and can see health, beauty, and emotion?

Not to mention the emotion the characters almost always have on their faces, even to regular vision.

I really don't want to offend anyone, or derail this into a debate about actors, so I will just say, most actors you ever hear about, don't really 'act'. I think the best actors are the type-cast ones, who do something so well they are stuck in it forever, and even if they attempt to, they rarely are allowed to breech that prison.

Plus all the needed special effects...I really think the reason Game of Thrones got adapted for the screen is that for fantasy, the magical/non human aspects of it are so low. And it was just easier to adapt, sort of the exact opposite of this series?

One thing that occurred to me while reading the books. There is a SIGNIFICANT amount of horror if you tried to make them into a movie. Sure, LOTR had some of that but some of the things in the First and Second Chronicles are downright gruesome.

If you cut the Horror out to make a mini-series or movie it just wouldn't be the same.

I think any adaptation would do well to make a virtue of the horror aspects in the chronicles; I suspect some of the more gruesome and unsettling passages in the books would actually translate really well to the screen in terms of both narrative pacing and visual impact.

I feel as though the mission to Seareach very much played out like a tragic horror story.
It is soooo well paced and filled with unsettling imagery that it practically adapts itself to visual media.

Within the mission to Seareach itself, the section where the company discover Hoerkin is absolutely chilling and again would make a terrific scene that would give most people that visceral thrill that horror films can sometimes provide.

[Skyweir]

With the making of Band of Brothers.. The Pacific and of course
Game of Thrones a set of mini-series could bring all
the books to the small screen...

HBO anybody??

Definitely.. if it worked for GRR Martin .. so why not.

I agree with everything Elise everyone has said _ I think there's definitely enough going on to make for a well paced MS classic.

[Horrim Carabal]

The problem is we need a studio head or prominent producer who's actually heard of SRD or the Chronicles.

I don't imagine many of these types read a lot of epic fantasy.

Could it happen? Yes. Will it? Doubtful.

Also SRD has said many times he wants nothing to do with any project like this...and those that tend to get made are ones where the author is an enthusiastic participant in the process, e.g. Martin.

[SleeplessOne]

Maybe SRD doesn't want everyone to know about the darker stuff in his other works? The Real Story has a lot of disturbing rape and beating scenes...about half of the novella. Nowadays, that would generate a royal shitstorm and possibly ruin his career if certain people made enough of an outrage over some of his books for it to go viral.

Then again, SRD kind of seems like an asshole from how people have described him. Not that that colors my opinion of his books, though.

It's not as if the Gap series is some hidden, verboten text .. and it wasn't written 'nowadays', it was written in a pre-#metoo era ...
No doubt if the works were more widely known right now they would generate a lot of discussion and some controversy among various social reform commentators .. I for one think Donaldson has nothing to hide in his work, and would question the validity of anyone suggesting any form of censorship.

As to Donaldson seeming like 'an asshole', I have never heard or read anything that gives that impression whatsoever - what is it that you have read or heard that makes you think this is the case?

[Savor Dam]

As a serial Elohimfest attendee (and principal driver of the Andelain Taxi service ), I've never gotten an unfriendly vibe from SRD at these events. It is true that he is not the most social person, but he has always been a gracious guest of honor and a fascinating speaker.

While he is open to maklng movies / miniseries from his works, he recognizes the inherent compromises that requires...and just as he chafed at some of the suggestions he got from Lester DelRey back in the day, he isn't thrilled with the artistic sacrifices required of translating his books to a visual medium.

[Forestal]

Everyone has bad days... and I think that anyone who's made something artistic can share the balking at the idea of someone twisting and torturing it to change it into another medium that it was never designed for.

(I still want to see it done, though.)

[wayfriend]

Donaldson once talked about his creative control for a movie project.

I would like to emphasize that I have no control over any aspect of this process. After all, the film rights are held by Ballantine Books, not by me. I've met Winther and Orloff, and I'm convinced that their respect for and excitement about "Covenant" is genuine: for that reason, I'm starting to get excited myself. And I have no doubt that Revelstone Development will consult with me from time to time, and will take whatever I have to say seriously. But I have no actual power here. Nor do I want any. In fact, I've refused every offer to give me any power. I love movies; I hope a "Covenant" movie (or several) will be made; I hope it will be good; and I hope it will be successful. But I'm simply not qualified, either by experience or by personality, to make the kinds of decisions--and compromises--which are essential to film-making. And I have my own work to do, work which pretty much consumes all of my creative energy. So I'm rooting hard for Revelstone Development; and if Gordon, Winther, and Orloff ever want my opinion, I'll give it to them. But really this is all out of my hands.

[starkllr]

Everyone has bad days... and I think that anyone who's made something artistic can share the balking at the idea of someone twisting and torturing it to change it into another medium that it was never designed for.

(I still want to see it done, though.)

As a (self-published) author myself, I can totally agree with this. I would love to see my books bought by Hollywood and turned into movies (and I'd sign the contract in a heartbeat if I was ever given the chance) but I don't think I could personally make the changes required to translate them from book to screen, even though I have a pretty good idea of what they'd have to be.

[Lazy Luke]

This was going to be posted in the Alien:Covenant thread in Flicks, but here is probable more realistic.

So last year when Alien:Covenant hit the cinemas here in the UK, I was wondering when to go see it. I mean, come on, Covenant! Who in their right mind here on Kevinswatch wouldn't go see it.

Luckily, Ridley Scott popped up on the BBC radio 4 programme, Front Row. He spoke about the movie, about this and that, then the conversation moved to his spiritual beliefs. He told the interviewer that he used to be an athiest but was now an agnostic. But he still riled orginized religion for what it was ... but then he checked himself, saying that he shouldn't say too much against the church as he might suddenly be zapped by a bolt of lightning down from above.
As much as I tried, given the unique circumstances, I could not shake off the impression of Lord Mhoram, beset by nightmare monsters, wielding his Staff. Or the lightning striking the pinnicle of Kevin's Watch when Thomas Covenant first entered the Land.

So is it unrealistic to even attempt to make a movie?
Everytime I think of Ridley Scott directing a Thomas Covenant movie I think of the Ur-viles as Alien creatures.
Back in the 1980s Ur-vile Alien monsters would have been super scary. Maybe they still can be, if when set in a Lordy-Rings type world they remain strictly adult viewing.

[Horrim Carabal]

I still say a movie could be done. but I am starting to think a serialized tv series would be a better option. Surely some network exec might take a flyer on one of the most respected fantasy series of all time?

[Skyweir]

I agree Horrim ... Id like to see it across many episodes .. to ensure not too much is lost .. of the Land, the inhabitants of the Land .. and of course to ensure that the context is made clear.

[Ur Dead]

Whatever happens don't let National Lampoon make the movie.

Thomas Covenant played by Mick Jagger
Mhoram played by Keith Richard
Atiaran played by Cyndi Lauper
Bannor play by Gilbert Gottfried
and special guest Warwick Davis as Saltheart Foamfollower.

[Horrim Carabal]

I agree Horrim ... Id like to see it across many episodes .. to ensure not too much is lost .. of the Land, the inhabitants of the Land .. and of course to ensure that the context is made clear.

Yes, but where to divide the Chronicles into seasons? Could a first season end with the retrieval of the Staff of Law from Drool?

[Ur Dead]

I see 3 years...
One year for each set of Chronicles.
Now the length of the 3 would vary.
There are 5 translation events.(3 in the first and 1 each in the other two)
The amount of encounter events in each book would set the number of
episodes. the events depending on story impact and action.(Let not just have the boring talking only)
Give an example:
Episode 1 - Leper and Arrival (gives knowledge to viewer)
Intro - and credits Shows people reaction to camera with revulsion and avoidance. 30 secs.
Show TC walking down street and going into the building - 15 sec
Interaction of TC paying bill 2 minutes
Meeting the old man,the accident and translation -3 mins
Drool and Foul (Fouls embedded message)interactions and the view from Kevin's watch- 5 minutes
Lena and the perilous decent of kevin's watch. 8 mins
Hurtloam and meeting Lena's parents and and warnings. 3mins
Stonedown event and the rape. 10 mins
Off to Revelstone and Tricock. 7 mins
Soring Woodhelm and test of truth event 10 mins
The Celebration and Ur-viles 7 mins
Meeting Saltheart. 3 mins
The River ride.. 5 mins
Events at arrival - Revelstone 10 mins
End of Episode..
around 77 minutes of storyline. 1.5 hours including commercials.

Now some of the scenes would be more or less of what I have predicted.
But you get the idea.

[Forestal]

"My name is Tricock. Can you guess why?"

Rooster breeder?

[SleeplessOne]

I see 3 years...
One year for each set of Chronicles.
Now the length of the 3 would vary.
There are 5 translation events.(3 in the first and 1 each in the other two)
The amount of encounter events in each book would set the number of
episodes. the events depending on story impact and action.(Let not just have the boring talking only)
Give an example:
Episode 1 - Leper and Arrival (gives knowledge to viewer)
Intro - and credits Shows people reaction to camera with revulsion and avoidance. 30 secs.
Show TC walking down street and going into the building - 15 sec
Interaction of TC paying bill 2 minutes
Meeting the old man,the accident and translation -3 mins
Drool and Foul (Fouls embedded message)interactions and the view from Kevin's watch- 5 minutes
Lena and the perilous decent of kevin's watch. 8 mins
Hurtloam and meeting Lena's parents and and warnings. 3mins
Stonedown event and the rape. 10 mins
Off to Revelstone and Tricock. 7 mins
Soring Woodhelm and test of truth event 10 mins
The Celebration and Ur-viles 7 mins
Meeting Saltheart. 3 mins
The River ride.. 5 mins
Events at arrival - Revelstone 10 mins
End of Episode..
around 77 minutes of storyline. 1.5 hours including commercials.

Now some of the scenes would be more or less of what I have predicted.
But you get the idea.

I've been toying around with a Covenant script for a couple of years now; months can go by without me even looking at it - but over the past two weeks I've returned to it and adapted a decent chunk for the first time in a long while.

I recently added up the word-count a couple of days ago and was surprised that I had around 25,000 words written.
Breaking them up into roughly 5000-word scripts means I have nearly 5 episodes written, at (very roughly) maybe 35-40 minutes per episode.

I think ultimately I'd have to reset the demarcation lines between one episode and the next in order to extend them to a more standardized length, but its doable. If I'm being realistic then I probably have something more like 4 unpolished scripts for a season based on Lord Foul's Bane .

Trickiest aspect so far is trying to explicate at least some of Covenant's internalized thoughts and feelings in order to give an audience deeper understanding of the character.

Also, dramatising stuff like Covenant's time at Revelstone is a bit of a balancing act; you wanna include all the relevant exposition, but there are some sections that need re-working in order to hold an audience's interest.

I suspect that if/when I ever get through scripting Lord Foul's Bane I'd end up with around 10 episodes.

The Illearth War would be a longer season and would require significant restructuring, otherwise Covenant/Elena would be absent from the screen for weeks on end.

edit: little known fact - Tricock was the name of the warder at the gates of Foul's Creche ..

[Ur Dead]

I think revise on the number of years it would run .. about 6 years.

As why the GoT used a whole season per book is that you had multiple
characters in multiple settings. That is time consuming. The 1st chronicles
mainly one person Although I grant the IEW has some of the setting.
(It all one line until Trothguard) You have.
1. Hile Troys Army storyline.
2. TC and Elena travels to the Earthblood.
3. Shetra and the Giants story.

3 or 4 episodes dealing with TC arrival ,interaction with Hile Troy, awakening of
Loric Krill and effect. setting out to see the loremasters and events that cause the army going one way and Elena & TC the other.
fifth Army and Elena stories
sixth - Elena, Army first encounter (retreat), Shetra story (which her husband dies at the forbidding)
seventh - As Army entrenching against the vortex, The Giants demise would
be told. Elena frustrations and finally finding out about "Power of Command"
eigth- Elena travel to the Earthblood and ends right when she drinks the Earthblood. Troy's army at the city, his blindness and the retreat toward Garroting Deep
Last one - Battle at Deep, summoning the Forestal., retreat into the Deep,
encounter at Gallow Howe. Meeting Bannor and TC which tell the rest of Elena story. Hile Troys conversion.

yea maybe 2 years or one very long season (up to 20) for the 3 books.