US Presidental Elections 2008

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Post by wayfriend »

Cail wrote:Is it really worth making stuff up in order to defame a candidate?
Nope. Take note.
But what I posted was that someone shouted "Traitor!", which was recorded by television stations. I was careful NOT to mention the dubious "kill him" incident, although unfortunately that also was included in the linked story. Do please don't make up a story about what I posted.
Nothing in my post claimed that there was an attempt on his life. So please don't make up a story about what I posted.
It was reported in many other places; I just picked the single link that referenced many incidents in a single story. So please don't make up a story about what I posted.
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Post by Cail »

wayfriend wrote:Is it really worth creating this kind of divisiveness in order to win an election?
Shooting and threats as Obama widens gap

The stakes were raised dramatically in the US Presidential election Thursday as it was confirmed the Secret Service was investigating a cry of ‘Kill Obama’ at a rally addressed by his Republican rival John McCain and his running mate Sarah Palin.

At the same time, a man wearing an Obama T-shirt was shot three times in a London street.

The violence comes amid major gains by the Democratic candidate, Mr Obama, in the polls.

And it follows the arrests of three men, who allegedly had said they wanted to kill the candidate when he made his acceptance speech at Denver, Colorado in August.

The three who were also held on drug abuse charges, and were members of a right wing white supremacist group, were found to have hunting rifles and camouflage clothing in a truck they were using.

In London, Daily Mail reported that Nigerian Dube Egwuatu was shot on a street in South Norwood by a white man, who had threatened to kill him.

Mr Egwuatu, 36, a civil servant, was buying a mobile telephone top-up card when the gunman confronted him and glared at the shirt, which had Obama‘s image underneath the legend, ‘Believe.’ The attacker then launched into a tirade of racist slurs, shouting insults and urging the civil servant to leave the shop with him.

... After pleading with the man to leave him alone, Mr Egwuatu put the keys in the ignition and turned the engine on. The attacker fired the pistol three times, hitting the civil servant in the face, hand and shoulder.

... In the latest instance of inflammatory outbursts at McCain-Palin rallies, a crowd member screamed “treason!” on Tuesday after Sarah Palin accused Barack Obama of criticising US troops. “(Obama) said, too, that our troops in Afghanistan are ‘air raiding villages and killing civilians,’’ Ms Palin said, mischaracterising a 2007 remark by Mr Obama. “I hope Americans know that is not what our brave men and women in uniform are doing in Afghanistan. The US military is fighting terrorism and protecting us and protecting our freedom,” she said.

Shortly afterward, a male member of the crowd in Jacksonville, Florida, yelled “Treason!” loudly enough to be picked up by television microphones. ... [link]
Perhaps you should have read the article you quoted.
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Post by wayfriend »

*sigh*

Perhaps you should read my post.
Wayfriend wrote:But what I posted was that someone shouted "Traitor!", which was recorded by television stations. I was careful NOT to mention the dubious "kill him" incident, although unfortunately that also was included in the linked story.

and
Wayfriend wrote:Nothing in my post claimed that there was an attempt on his life.
... just that there were arrests for alleged intent.
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Post by Cail »

No Wayfriend, your post clearly says otherwise, hence the reason I posted it in its entirety and bolded the appropriate sections.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Post by wayfriend »

Then I intended to delete the reference to "Kill him" and apparently did not. Apologies. The rest stands.
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Post by Lord Mhoram »

"Al-Qaeda Supporters Endorse McCain", The Huffington Post

WASHINGTON — Al-Qaida supporters suggested in a Web site message this week they would welcome a pre-election terror attack on the U.S. as a way to usher in a McCain presidency.

The message, posted Monday on the password-protected al-Hesbah Web site, said if al-Qaida wants to exhaust the United States militarily and economically, "impetuous" Republican presidential candidate Sen. John McCain is the better choice because he is more likely to continue the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"This requires presence of an impetuous American leader such as McCain, who pledged to continue the war till the last American soldier," the message said. "Then, al-Qaida will have to support McCain in the coming elections so that he continues the failing march of his predecessor, Bush."

SITE Intelligence Group, based in Bethesda, Md., monitors the Web site and translated the message.

"If al-Qaida carries out a big operation against American interests," the message said, "this act will be support of McCain because it will push the Americans deliberately to vote for McCain so that he takes revenge for them against al-Qaida. Al-Qaida then will succeed in exhausting America till its last year in it."

Mark Salter, a senior McCain adviser, said he had heard about the Web site chatter but had no immediate comment.
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Post by [Syl] »

Where's Holsety's sig when you need it?
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Post by Farsailer »

I suppose the AQ doesn't want to address that they didn't do very well in Iraq.
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Post by Lord Mhoram »

Farsailer,
I suppose the AQ doesn't want to address that they didn't do very well in Iraq.
I think they did well enough.
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Post by Vain »

Would the Last Honest Reporter Please Turn On the Lights?
By Orson Scott Card

Editor's note: Orson Scott Card is a Democrat and a newspaper columnist, and in this opinion piece he takes on both while lamenting the current state of journalism.

An open letter to the local daily paper — almost every local daily paper in America:

I remember reading All the President's Men and thinking: That's journalism. You do what it takes to get the truth and you lay it before the public, because the public has a right to know.

This housing crisis didn't come out of nowhere. It was not a vague emanation of the evil Bush administration.

It was a direct result of the political decision, back in the late 1990s, to loosen the rules of lending so that home loans would be more accessible to poor people. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were authorized to approve risky loans.

What is a risky loan? It's a loan that the recipient is likely not to be able to repay.

The goal of this rule change was to help the poor — which especially would help members of minority groups. But how does it help these people to give them a loan that they can't repay? They get into a house, yes, but when they can't make the payments, they lose the house — along with their credit rating.

They end up worse off than before.

This was completely foreseeable and in fact many people did foresee it. One political party, in Congress and in the executive branch, tried repeatedly to tighten up the rules. The other party blocked every such attempt and tried to loosen them.

Furthermore, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were making political contributions to the very members of Congress who were allowing them to make irresponsible loans. (Though why quasi-federal agencies were allowed to do so baffles me. It's as if the Pentagon were allowed to contribute to the political campaigns of Congressmen who support increasing their budget.)

Isn't there a story here? Doesn't journalism require that you who produce our daily paper tell the truth about who brought us to a position where the only way to keep confidence in our economy was a $700 billion bailout? Aren't you supposed to follow the money and see which politicians were benefiting personally from the deregulation of mortgage lending?

I have no doubt that if these facts had pointed to the Republican Party or to John McCain as the guilty parties, you would be treating it as a vast scandal. "Housing-gate," no doubt. Or "Fannie-gate."

Instead, it was Senator Christopher Dodd and Congressman Barney Frank, both Democrats, who denied that there were any problems, who refused Bush administration requests to set up a regulatory agency to watch over Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and who were still pushing for these agencies to go even further in promoting sub-prime mortgage loans almost up to the minute they failed.

As Thomas Sowell points out in a TownHall.com essay entitled "Do Facts Matter?" ( snipurl.com/457townhall_com] ): "Alan Greenspan warned them four years ago. So did the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers to the President. So did Bush's Secretary of the Treasury."

These are facts. This financial crisis was completely preventable. The party that blocked any attempt to prevent it was ... the Democratic Party. The party that tried to prevent it was ... the Republican Party.

Yet when Nancy Pelosi accused the Bush administration and Republican deregulation of causing the crisis, you in the press did not hold her to account for her lie. Instead, you criticized Republicans who took offense at this lie and refused to vote for the bailout!

What? It's not the liar, but the victims of the lie who are to blame?

Now let's follow the money ... right to the presidential candidate who is the number-two recipient of campaign contributions from Fannie Mae.

And after Freddie Raines, the CEO of Fannie Mae who made $90 million while running it into the ground, was fired for his incompetence, one presidential candidate's campaign actually consulted him for advice on housing.

If that presidential candidate had been John McCain, you would have called it a major scandal and we would be getting stories in your paper every day about how incompetent and corrupt he was.

But instead, that candidate was Barack Obama, and so you have buried this story, and when the McCain campaign dared to call Raines an "adviser" to the Obama campaign — because that campaign had sought his advice — you actually let Obama's people get away with accusing McCain of lying, merely because Raines wasn't listed as an official adviser to the Obama campaign.

You would never tolerate such weasely nit-picking from a Republican.

If you who produce our local daily paper actually had any principles, you would be pounding this story, because the prosperity of all Americans was put at risk by the foolish, short-sighted, politically selfish, and possibly corrupt actions of leading Democrats, including Obama.

If you who produce our local daily paper had any personal honor, you would find it unbearable to let the American people believe that somehow Republicans were to blame for this crisis.

There are precedents. Even though President Bush and his administration never said that Iraq sponsored or was linked to 9/11, you could not stand the fact that Americans had that misapprehension — so you pounded us with the fact that there was no such link. (Along the way, you created the false impression that Bush had lied to them and said that there was a connection.)

If you had any principles, then surely right now, when the American people are set to blame President Bush and John McCain for a crisis they tried to prevent, and are actually shifting to approve of Barack Obama because of a crisis he helped cause, you would be laboring at least as hard to correct that false impression.

Your job, as journalists, is to tell the truth. That's what you claim you do, when you accept people's money to buy or subscribe to your paper.

But right now, you are consenting to or actively promoting a big fat lie — that the housing crisis should somehow be blamed on Bush, McCain, and the Republicans. You have trained the American people to blame everything bad — even bad weather — on Bush, and they are responding as you have taught them to.

If you had any personal honor, each reporter and editor would be insisting on telling the truth — even if it hurts the election chances of your favorite candidate.

Because that's what honorable people do. Honest people tell the truth even when they don't like the probable consequences. That's what honesty means . That's how trust is earned.

Barack Obama is just another politician, and not a very wise one. He has revealed his ignorance and naivete time after time — and you have swept it under the rug, treated it as nothing.

Meanwhile, you have participated in the borking of Sarah Palin, reporting savage attacks on her for the pregnancy of her unmarried daughter — while you ignored the story of John Edwards's own adultery for many months.

So I ask you now: Do you have any standards at all? Do you even know what honesty means?

Is getting people to vote for Barack Obama so important that you will throw away everything that journalism is supposed to stand for?

You might want to remember the way the National Organization of Women threw away their integrity by supporting Bill Clinton despite his well-known pattern of sexual exploitation of powerless women. Who listens to NOW anymore? We know they stand for nothing; they have no principles.

That's where you are right now.

It's not too late. You know that if the situation were reversed, and the truth would damage McCain and help Obama, you would be moving heaven and earth to get the true story out there.

If you want to redeem your honor, you will swallow hard and make a list of all the stories you would print if it were McCain who had been getting money from Fannie Mae, McCain whose campaign had consulted with its discredited former CEO, McCain who had voted against tightening its lending practices.

Then you will print them, even though every one of those true stories will point the finger of blame at the reckless Democratic Party, which put our nation's prosperity at risk so they could feel good about helping the poor, and lay a fair share of the blame at Obama's door.

You will also tell the truth about John McCain: that he tried, as a Senator, to do what it took to prevent this crisis. You will tell the truth about President Bush: that his administration tried more than once to get Congress to regulate lending in a responsible way.

This was a Congress-caused crisis, beginning during the Clinton administration, with Democrats leading the way into the crisis and blocking every effort to get out of it in a timely fashion.

If you at our local daily newspaper continue to let Americans believe — and vote as if — President Bush and the Republicans caused the crisis, then you are joining in that lie.

If you do not tell the truth about the Democrats — including Barack Obama — and do so with the same energy you would use if the miscreants were Republicans — then you are not journalists by any standard.

You're just the public relations machine of the Democratic Party, and it's time you were all fired and real journalists brought in, so that we can actually have a news paper in our city.

www.ldsmag.com/ideas/081017light.html
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Post by Cail »

OSC is generally a huge schweenbag, but he makes a decent point.
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Post by Avatar »

Certainly is, about the deregulation/crisis.

His other point, I'm not so sure about...am I really to believe, (and this is a genuine question), that there is no conservative media or reporters or journalists? That no attacks/criticisms/whatever have ever been published about Obama or the Democrats at any time?

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Post by Lord Mhoram »

It's so funny how Card always identifies himself as a Democrat so as to make his rightist arguments seem somehow less partisan and more credible. I could probably count the issues with which he agrees with Democrats on my left hand. In terms of his actual argument, surely he wouldn't be writing such a column if McCain were winning. Why wasn't this savage, aggressive, mean-spirited, shameless media attack on George W. Bush effective in 2000 and 2004? Could the reason McCain be losing have something to do with *gasp* the issues?
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Post by Cail »

The Obama machine has threatened to sue in cases where people have published things that don't fit his image. And other things have simply gone unreported.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Post by Avatar »

But there is a conservative media?

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Post by Lord Mhoram »

Cail,

Things that don't fit his "image" like Jeremiah Wright and Bill Ayers? Are you telling me those weren't reported?

Avatar,

Of course there is. Fox News and The Wall Street Journal are two of the most popular media in this country.
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Post by Avatar »

Then they should be publishing it. Better ammunition than most other things against him...

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Post by Cail »

No LM, I'm talking about Obama's position on throwing away live aborted children, his flip-flops on gun control and gun bans, and his completely un-American idea of spreading the wealth around. And there's the lawsuit against him that is proceeding in Pennsylvania that you won't find squat about anywhere.

Card makes a very valid point that the mainstream news isn't covering this, just as they ignored the Edwards affair.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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Post by Cybrweez »

There's a lawsuit against Obama?

And Card has a valid point, how can "reporters" keep writing/talking about how the Repubs caused this w/dereg? How can they not call Obama and Dems out whenever they repeat that lie? It never happens! It should be well known to every American, the Dems let Fannie run wild, and the housing crisis ensued. When a Dem blames a Rep for dereg, call the lie, period.
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Post by Cail »

Yes, Phil Berg is claiming that Obama doesn't meet the Constitutional requirements to become President.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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