Pantheon 2.0 - Game Thread

[Vadhaka]

I fail to understand. You imply (but do not say) that your intentions are benign. If they are, then demonstrate it, or accept that you may be mistrusted.

There is no "trial" being mentioned. Only evidence of your intent is being requested. Nor has Argothoth spoken against you. He informed Bhakti that you had his child of destiny, and that you spoke to him regarding accelerating its growth, presumably with the intent of using the child against him.

Is any of that untrue? If so, what? And of course, what is the truth?

The God of Love has every right to accuse you. If those accusations are unfounded, then it is necessary to demonstrate that they are so, and what better way to show that you harbour no ill intent than to allow Bhakti to access the child?

No being accuses you of being Nor Yekith, or of seeking to propagate his agendas. But you protest even a questioning of your position?

(And for what it is worth, I had full knowledge of Argothoth's intentions, and blessed them under the circumstances. My own prophet rose from the dead, and made me proud of his training and provenence by immediately slaying the grave-robbers despoiling his tomb.)

I have no quarrel with you sister. And I am willing to believe the best of you. But that belief requires a foundation. So far, all I have seen are more accusations. *shrug*

I have said my piece, your reaction is your own choice. My proposal to all stands. I hope all choose wisely. *bows*

As for the relative strengths of your word and that of the God of the Undead, yes, without further substantiation, I remain predisposed to give his word more weight in this matter. I am equally willing to believe him mistaken or decieved if such argument is put forth.

As I said, I am more than willing to be proved wrong. I would prefer it in fact, for I seek an end to these petty contentions. Actions sister. By their actions shall ye judge them. You have not given us the chance to decide if Bhakti's hasty words were ill-chosen though. I would like that chance.

[Norn]

Did you ask the Goddess of Fate about this birth? Did SHE tell you it had occurred? For you should know, as I do, that a child of destiny is surely something she would learn of. And yet, though I gather she did not tell you of him, you do not point your finger at her - but at me. Interesting, is it not?

No, it is not. Of course Norn knew about my child of destiny when he was born. But I knew he was not in Norn's lands, but in Kortral. She knew nothing more than I did. However, if I learned that the child's parents were her followers, but she said nothing to me about it, I would most certainly have had words for her, just as I had for you.

I miss the part where the fact that the child of destiny wasn't in the Goddess of Fate's lands but in Kortral means that she is granted exemption from your righteous anger, but I am to blame. Is Kortral my land? I do not think so, and the Goddess of Dreams would likely take exception if I said it was. And your assumption that I knew exactly where the baby was is laughable, God of Love - for an assumption it is. When I learned of his birth, I sought him out just as you did. And as for why - for surely you will claim that this is proof of my malicious intentions - let me ask you - had MY child of destiny been born among YOUR followers, would you have left them to their own devices while waiting for my party of searchers to find them? Or would you have taken them deep into Shakari, so that the "evil and malicious creation of Nor Yekith" could not put her "claws" on them?
Your prejudice, God of Love, is plain for all to see.

It is true that I sensed the birth of the child whose Fate is irrevocably tied to the God of Love. I also knew where the child was born, at least in very general terms. I did not share what I knew with Bhakti because I knew that he learned of the child's birth when I did and thus I could reveal nothing to him of which he was not already aware. Why therefore should his anger be turned towards me?

I do not believe that you knew the exact location of the child - only the All-Father could have passed on such knowledge. However, surely you understand that taking the child without informing the God of Love might seem suspicious to some. If, as you ask us to imagine, a child fated to so influence you had been born on Landir and was taken by Bhakti without your knowledge, would you not be suspicious of his motives?

If you want me to prove I have no evil intent, then I request you judge the God of the Undead first, for the crime he has performed and the pain he has visited upon countless souls in Eiran. I ask the God of Death to give us a tally of how many souls were bereft of choice, and for all gods who were NOT involved in this raising to pass judgment on the God of the Undead. Surely you do not believe his crime is less than mine? Or were all the gods in agreement with him when he raised the dead of the ages?

Pass judgment on him, and only then I will be persuaded to respect this "fair court" enough to show the proof you ask of me. Or, refuse to pass judgment on him but admit your own hypocrisy and do not bother me any further with this righteous demands, for I will not answer them unless I am shown there are no double standards among the gods.

I did not take part in Argothoth's endeavour to snatch the dead of Eiran from their rest, and I have already passed judgement on his actions myself, declaring them to be an act of agression. A tally of the souls raised was not necessary, for the further desecration of the bodies of my late prophets sufficed. While I do not like to use the word crime, I would agree that his actions are just as worthy of condemnation as yours, if not more so. Yet I am the Mistress of Fate, and as such the taking of a child whose Fate is bound to another is greatly troubling for me. Would you not give the child to Bhakti unchanged?

[Xar]

Melirelle

No, it is not. Of course Norn knew about my child of destiny when he was born. But I knew he was not in Norn's lands, but in Kortral. She knew nothing more than I did. However, if I learned that the child's parents were her followers, but she said nothing to me about it, I would most certainly have had words for her, just as I had for you.

I miss the part where the fact that the child of destiny wasn't in the Goddess of Fate's lands but in Kortral means that she is granted exemption from your righteous anger, but I am to blame. Is Kortral my land? I do not think so, and the Goddess of Dreams would likely take exception if I said it was. And your assumption that I knew exactly where the baby was is laughable, God of Love - for an assumption it is. When I learned of his birth, I sought him out just as you did. And as for why - for surely you will claim that this is proof of my malicious intentions - let me ask you - had MY child of destiny been born among YOUR followers, would you have left them to their own devices while waiting for my party of searchers to find them? Or would you have taken them deep into Shakari, so that the "evil and malicious creation of Nor Yekith" could not put her "claws" on them?
Your prejudice, God of Love, is plain for all to see.

It is true that I sensed the birth of the child whose Fate is irrevocably tied to the God of Love. I also knew where the child was born, at least in very general terms. I did not share what I knew with Bhakti because I knew that he learned of the child's birth when I did and thus I could reveal nothing to him of which he was not already aware. Why therefore should his anger be turned towards me?

I do not believe that you knew the exact location of the child - only the All-Father could have passed on such knowledge. However, surely you understand that taking the child without informing the God of Love might seem suspicious to some. If, as you ask us to imagine, a child fated to so influence you had been born on Landir and was taken by Bhakti without your knowledge, would you not be suspicious of his motives?

I have taken no child: he was born to my followers, though I only learned of that months after his birth. And I kept him hidden because I expected Bhakti's people to try to take him away, especially given his propensity towards dismissing me as another of Nor Yekith's mindless drones.

If you want me to prove I have no evil intent, then I request you judge the God of the Undead first, for the crime he has performed and the pain he has visited upon countless souls in Eiran. I ask the God of Death to give us a tally of how many souls were bereft of choice, and for all gods who were NOT involved in this raising to pass judgment on the God of the Undead. Surely you do not believe his crime is less than mine? Or were all the gods in agreement with him when he raised the dead of the ages?

Pass judgment on him, and only then I will be persuaded to respect this "fair court" enough to show the proof you ask of me. Or, refuse to pass judgment on him but admit your own hypocrisy and do not bother me any further with this righteous demands, for I will not answer them unless I am shown there are no double standards among the gods.

I did not take part in Argothoth's endeavour to snatch the dead of Eiran from their rest, and I have already passed judgement on his actions myself, declaring them to be an act of agression. A tally of the souls raised was not necessary, for the further desecration of the bodies of my late prophets sufficed. While I do not like to use the word crime, I would agree that his actions are just as worthy of condemnation as yours, if not more so. Yet I am the Mistress of Fate, and as such the taking of a child whose Fate is bound to another is greatly troubling for me. Would you not give the child to Bhakti unchanged?

[/quote]

Why should I give the child to the God of Love? Even not considering the fact that he is born of my followers and the God of Love has no right to claim the child as his own, why should I accede to this request when he has chosen to ignore courtesy and respect and to drag this matter out into the open for all the world to see? Surely you see, Sister, that a child of destiny cuts both ways - given the God of Love's hostility towards me, and the manner in which he does not even respect me enough to discuss these matters privately, how could I be sure that I would not see that child, years from now, leading an attack against me, in words if not in actions? For all of the God of Love's talk about love and forgiveness, he is quick to point the finger and lay blame; I would not wish for the child to be raised by one such as him.

In any case, I await the answer of the God of Love, who started this quarrel in the first place. What say you, God of Love? Pass judgment on Argothoth, or admit double standards?

[Bhakti]

Twist anything in any way you wish, and stray from the subject all you want. It changes nothing. You acted as you did, and you tried to get help raising my child of destiny to be my greatest enemy. And you will doubtless succeed.

If it came to pass that my child of destiny became my greatest ally, he would help me teach my people (and any others who wish to listen, although they will never be coerced) about Love. He would not have lead my people to war against evil. That is not my way. As I have often said, I have never acted against Nor Yekith, despite what he did to me and what he was planning to do to me. I have never acted against you, despite any suspicions I may have had. And, despite your actions regarding my child of destiny, I will still not act against you. As I said, I will tell the world what you do when I learn that you act against me.

As it is, he will become my greatest enemy. But this does not mean he will help anyone destroy me. Love will always win. Do as you will. Obviously, I have no claim over him. To my knowledge, he was not born to any of my followers who live in Kortral.

And if it happens that you have a child of destiny born in my lands, I will use any DRP's you give me to search for it. How things proceed after we find it, if we find it, depends on the wishes of the child's parents (assuming they are my followers) and your willingness to take the Oath of the Allfather that you will never attempt to use the child against me. If the parents are not my followers, then the deity they do follow will have to be consulted.


My thanks, Vadhaka, for seeing all of this clearly. *bows* And I approve of your idea for our uses of Power this season.

[Xar]

Twist anything in any way you wish, and stray from the subject all you want. It changes nothing. You acted as you did, and you tried to get help raising my child of destiny to be my greatest enemy. And you will doubtless succeed.

If it came to pass that my child of destiny became my greatest ally, he would help me teach my people (and any others who wish to listen, although they will never be coerced) about Love. He would not have lead my people to war against evil. That is not my way. As I have often said, I have never acted against Nor Yekith, despite what he did to me and what he was planning to do to me. I have never acted against you, despite any suspicions I may have had. And, despite your actions regarding my child of destiny, I will still not act against you. As I said, I will tell the world what you do when I learn that you act against me.

As it is, he will become my greatest enemy. But this does not mean he will help anyone destroy me. Love will always win. Do as you will. Obviously, I have no claim over him. To my knowledge, he was not born to any of my followers who live in Kortral.

And if it happens that you have a child of destiny born in my lands, I will use any DRP's you give me to search for it. How things proceed after we find it, if we find it, depends on the wishes of the child's parents (assuming they are my followers) and your willingness to take the Oath of the Allfather that you will never attempt to use the child against me. If the parents are not my followers, then the deity they do follow will have to be consulted.

My thanks, Vadhaka, for seeing all of this clearly. *bows* And I approve of your idea for our uses of Power this season.

Melirelle

I twist nothing, God of Love, but you are the one who avoids the subject. I offered a proposal which I think is fairer than you would deserve: pass judgment on Argothoth and I will show you proof that I am not the demon you paint me to be; or apologize for your accusations you admit you blessed Argothoth's efforts, directly or not.

The fact you did not mention my proposal at all leads me to conclude you did bless Argothoth's efforts, or at least knew of them and, by not acting, sanctioned them. If this is correct, then you have no right to accuse anyone of evil; if it is wrong, then surely either he lied to you or he hid his intentions from you - and in this case, it is only right that you pass judgment on him, and admit that your so-called ally has performed a crime against your own followers (among others) without your knowledge.

Once again, you act entirely on the accusations of another god, not even bothering with finding out if they are the truth or not. The fact I have your child of destiny - by virtue of him being born to my people - does not automatically mean he'll be raised as your enemy; you would do well to spout accusations only after having better proof than a god's whispers, though. Or are you so debased that you would believe anything from your allies, as long as it fit with your vision of the world? If Argothoth told you that the God of the Dead is eating souls again, would you at least give him the benefit of the doubt, or would you point your finger and accuse him as if you had seen the act through your own eyes?

Your child of destiny could not teach about Love. I see no Love in you, only an eagerness to find enemies to show the Pantheon, and a blindness towards the actions of your so-called allies. The God of Murder at least admitted his part in Argothoth's crime; what of yours?

You are quick to argue others should use the Oath to the AllFather to swear they will not harm you; where are your Oaths when your integrity is called into question?

[Vadhaka]

Tell me sister, are you saying that you knew nothing or Argothoth's raising of the dead?

And my thanks brother. Thus far then, we have 5 Deities who agree with my proposal.

[Astavyastataa Kadna]

Tell me sister, are you saying that you knew nothing or Argothoth's raising of the dead?

And my thanks brother. Thus far then, we have 5 Deities who agree with my proposal.

I would count on my agreement ONLY if Mutation is reversed. If not ... lets proceed as we had planned. For one way or another; ALL EVIDENCE of Malice must be removed!!

While I praise your efforts cousin Assassin *bows* ... you are too timid in your demand, given the amount of DRP that will be spent.

[Vadhaka]

2 DRP from each is scarcely an extravagent amount. I do not see it as our job to reverse the mutation, even if such were possible.

If you wish to aid such work by somebody else, or have it accomplished on your own behalf, feel free to extend whatever powers you have for it. Those mutations are part of Erian now however. The removal of the star and the curse on those lands suffices for me. *bows*

If this means you will not share our worthy labour for the sake of Erian, then so be it.

[Astavyastataa Kadna]

2 DRP from each is scarcely an extravagent amount. I do not see it as our job to reverse the mutation, even if such were possible.

If you wish to aid such work by somebody else, or have it accomplished on your own behalf, feel free to extend whatever powers you have for it. Those mutations are part of Erian now however. The removal of the star and the curse on those lands suffices for me. *bows*

If this means you will not share our worthy labour for the sake of Erian, then so be it.

Ahhh, cousin. Give ME the 2 DRP from each deity and I will remove the STAR. No AllFather intervention is needed. As to the curse on the GROUND. I call on Melirelle ... do you support Vadhaka's request to the AllFather? Or is such a curse a defensive instrument? And if so, cousin Vadhaka ... is it up to us to remove it.

Also, Adomorn spoke truly ... if we leave untouched the offspring of Mutation we will rue our inaction.

Lastly, we have NOT heard that the AllFather is supportive. If he does not - you will still have your result - by giving ME the DRP.

As to sharing ... if all agree to lend ... you may count on my 2 DRP as well. But DESTRUCTION WILL cleanse MALICE in addition. And any who feel as I do may join!

[I'm Murrin]

The compulsion on the lands of Khenstorn is a sticking issue. I would see it removed from the unaligned places in the east, but I would not seek to expunge it entirely from Khenstorn--another god has seen fit to use this method for the security of their people and their faith, and I would not interfere in that much of it. Perhaps you should have spoken with the god responsible, Vadhaka, before seeking its removal.

[Vadhaka]

I was under the impression that Nor Yekith engineered this compulsion.

If that is not so, then I would be satisfied with merely the removal of it in the unaligned lands, as Maeror has suggested.

[O-gon-cho]

And my thanks brother. Thus far then, we have 5 Deities who agree with my proposal.

I would count on my agreement ONLY if Mutation is reversed. If not ... lets proceed as we had planned. For one way or another; ALL EVIDENCE of Malice must be removed!!

While I praise your efforts cousin Assassin *bows* ... you are too timid in your demand, given the amount of DRP that will be spent.

2 DRP from each is scarcely an extravagent amount. I do not see it as our job to reverse the mutation, even if such were possible.

If you wish to aid such work by somebody else, or have it accomplished on your own behalf, feel free to extend whatever powers you have for it. Those mutations are part of Erian now however. The removal of the star and the curse on those lands suffices for me. *bows*

If this means you will not share our worthy labour for the sake of Erian, then so be it.

Lastly, we have NOT heard that the AllFather is supportive. If he does not - you will still have your result - by giving ME the DRP.

As to sharing ... if all agree to lend ... you may count on my 2 DRP as well. But DESTRUCTION WILL cleanse MALICE in addition. And any who feel as I do may join!

:::how quickly they forget:::

Cousin, Brother, I disagree that 2 DRP is scarcely an extravagant amount, as it is two-thirds of my own power. And as Astavyastataa Kadna points out, we have yet to hear if the AllFather is supportive of such a plan. As a deity of Immeril, I would much rather split my 2 DRP on efforts that would bring down the Star (which is still offensive to me as Mistress of Air and Light, despite what I have been told personally by the AllFather) and ease the lands of the mutations, malice, and geas upon them. If Vadhaka's plan can not do all, then I would rather support multiple plans to the best of my ability to attempt to bring this about.

[Astavyastataa Kadna]

*sighs* It seems cousin Vadhaka, the for your proposal to work ... a deity must go beyond the mists and petition the AllFather. Do you propose to do that yourself?

If not ... I can and WILL bring down the STAR with enough help; AND DESTROY the remnants of MALICE in Nor Pupae AND Yekithii. I ask Maeror to use his HEALING influence to heal the Mutation that remains!

[Xar]

Tell me sister, are you saying that you knew nothing or Argothoth's raising of the dead?

And my thanks brother. Thus far then, we have 5 Deities who agree with my proposal.

Melirelle

Argothoth and I have had many dealings in the past, and when he asked me for power in order to perform a ritual of great power which, as he claimed, would benefit us, I trusted his judgment and granted him part of my power. You all know what he did with it - and with that of many others. For this, I am perhaps partially responsible, though less than those who agreed knowing full well what his plan was, or those who even loaned power to him in full knowledge of the consequences. But then again, Argothoth had already betrayed my trust without my knowledge - what was another act of betrayal? I was simply foolish to lend him power, and I won't do so again.
But I wouldn't have raised this issue if the God of Love had not been so acrimonious with me; for while I acknowledge my fault, he does not and yet he does not cry against Argothoth's actions. My domains are different than his, and so is my outlook; though I find the rising of the dead abhorrent, I acknowledge my part in it, however unwittingly, and therefore did not choose to accuse him openly. But the God of Love has chosen to accuse me while utterly trusting Argothoth's words, and this begs the question: did he know about Argothoth's purpose or not? If he did, and still allowed him to complete it, then he is a hypocrite, for his people, far more than mine or yours, have undoubtly suffered in seeing their Loved ones rising from their graves as soulless monstrosities. And if he didn't, then Argothoth lied to him, or at least concealed the truth from him, and raised his dead taking the God of Love by surprise, so the fact that the God of Love chose not to blame him and is so quick to blame me speaks of double standards, for if Argothoth lied to him before, why does he trust his words so much now?
And as for your vaunted, alleged belief I am evil and will corrupt your child of destiny, God of Love: learn my promise to the God of War, receive his confirmation, and then think again about how quick you are to judge.

To Astavyastataa Kadna: The compulsion is not my doing, but I would not remove it if I could. Not from my lands, at least. I can see far too well who will be the next goddess to face the Pantheon's wrath, especially with the God of War's armies marching upon Nor Pupae, all too close to my lands.

And to Lord Adomorn I publicly say: I promised you I would not join Nor Yekith's forces if you waged war against him, as long as your men would not harm or attack my followers in Nor Pupae. The disappearance of Nor Yekith will cause many of his erstwhile followers to turn to one or another of the Khenstorn Gods for comfort and protection. My promise still stands: I will not get in your way as long as you and your followers, and any who ally with you, do not harm my people, including those who will convert now. Should any of my people be harmed, and reparations not be made, I will consider it an act of war and act accordingly.

[Astavyastataa Kadna]

...I hope to see Eiran alive for long time more.

Or at least Undead, cousin?

[Astavyastataa Kadna]

.... I will not get in your way as long as you and your followers, and any who ally with you, do not harm my people, including those who will convert now. Should any of my people be harmed, and reparations not be made, I will consider it an act of war and act accordingly.

My DESTRUCTION will be pitched for Mutation and Malice ... I will not intentionally harm any of YOURS for in truth YOU have not acted against me. But in the rush of armies, be they the undead of Argothoth or the live of Adomorn, there may be accidents. Could you not remove your followers from the lands of Malice?

[Astavyastataa Kadna]

.... All you have to do is go forth in to this world of chaos and spread my word...

WELCOME cousin Mox! It is seemly that you know that CHAOS rules!!

[Xar]

.... I will not get in your way as long as you and your followers, and any who ally with you, do not harm my people, including those who will convert now. Should any of my people be harmed, and reparations not be made, I will consider it an act of war and act accordingly.

My DESTRUCTION will be pitched for Mutation and Malice ... I will not intentionally harm any of YOURS for in truth YOU have not acted against me. But in the rush of armies, be they the undead of Argothoth or the live of Adomorn, there may be accidents. Could you not remove your followers from the lands of Malice?

Melirelle

I will not ask my followers to leave their homes and their lands just because you and the God of War wish to annihilate Nor Yekith's remaining worshipers. And even if I did, what of Nor Yekith's worshipers who, finding themselves without their god, turned to me for worship?

I spoke of this with the God of War when he was still Justice - and I hope that the change has not shattered our agreement. He agreed that there might be incidents, but that he would try to avoid harming my people and that he would offer reparations if this happened. This is an agreement I can accept, though should too many "accidents" happen, I might be forced to take further steps to protect me and mine.

[Astavyastataa Kadna]

I will endeavour to keep accidents to a minimun.

[Bhakti]

But I wouldn't have raised this issue if the God of Love had not been so acrimonious with me; for while I acknowledge my fault,

That's the first time you've even hinted at such a thing.

he does not and yet

I bear no fault in the matter. I used a DRP to look for the child, but was unsuccessful. I have not demanded you give it to me, and have not demanded any role in the child's upbringing. I merely point out your actions to all.

he does not cry against Argothoth's actions. My domains are different than his, and so is my outlook; though I find the rising of the dead abhorrent, I acknowledge my part in it, however unwittingly, and therefore did not choose to accuse him openly. But the God of Love has chosen to accuse me while utterly trusting Argothoth's words, and this begs the question:

It does not beg any question at all. You are attempting to sidetrack the issue I brought up - What you have done in regards to my child of destiny. Which I have addressed as much as I care to. The child is yours. It is the offspring of your followers (I trust your word in this), and you found it first. It would have been nice to have been informed of any of this, and to have been offered... anything in the matter. Instead, you attempted to enlist my ally's aid in turning the child into my enemy. So be it. Do your worst. I will not attempt to stop you. And the child will not destroy me.