Blu-ray players

[Zarathustra]

BC, DVD-A require the analog inputs, too. At least with my sub-$200 player (Pioneer 563). Higher-end models have different ways to connect.

For movies, I just run through my digital coax cable. I think it's just about as good as the optical, but I'm not sure. I've never used the optical input. Good question!

[Cail]

In a perfect world, the optical is the best connection (short of HDMI), but a lot depends on the components you're using.

I'm using a massive (like won't fit into any sort of furniture) RC-7 center with RS-III surrounds and I can't remember which model sub. Everything's Klipsch.

I've heard SACD, and (call me old-school) still prefer stereo. That's subject to change when music is produced to exploit 5.1 sound, but I find that nuance is lost when it's all over the place.

I really can't afford to start going nuts with my A/V equipment, as I already have enough expensive hobbies (golf and a Harley) as well as an ex-wife and an attorney to support.

[Zarathustra]

Cail, you're certainly not alone on stereo music. There are a lot of "purists" who can't stand anything but stereo. They say we have two ears, so we should listen to music in two speakers. There *is* a gimmicky quality about surround music. Like I said, it works really well with trippy stuff like Dark Side. And I like the way it enhances a live performance acoustics.

Your speakers sound amazing. Sounds like you've already gone nuts! Mine are all bang-for-the-buck as cheap as I could possibly get them while still sounding great, including things I've replaced myself after parts have broken (easy stuff like speaker drivers). They sound nice, but I know how much better it *could* sound, which drives me nuts.

The guys who have the best stuff are the DIY freaks who know what they're doing and build them themselves. I've seen pictures of these guys' projects online. Stunning systems. I'm thinking one day this would be a fun project. The absolute cheapest way to get the best sound possible, and learn a lot of cool stuff in the process. Apparently building speakers just takes time, materials, and a little research. Not many components in a home theater system you can say that about--nor are there any which can have as large an impact on sound. Hell, I think I just talked myself into it!

[Cail]

Here's my opinion, and it's only an opinion....

Dark Side was recorded in stereo. Any 5.1 mix was done after the fact, so any "new" mix isn't what PF had in mind when recording it. I'm surprised (shocked, actually) that artists aren't recording in 5.1 to exploit the 5.1 soundscape. Live DVDs are problematic. When you're at a concert, you're not hearing actual binary stereo, you're hearing by-God surround, so theoretically, a 5.1 mix should sound more lifelike.

The problem is that DVD producers seem to enjoy "blinging-up" the mix to wow the listener......I hate that. The P.U.L.S.E. DVD is a really bad example of that. By contrast, I have a David Gilmour DVD that sounds great in surround, so I know it's possible.

But to me, if the source material wasn't recorded with the latest gee-whizbang surround encoding, then it's going to sound like crap when it's reproduced that way. This is one of the downsides of having good speakers (and one of the reasons I really blew my wad with the ones I got). I can hear everything with my system, and 99% of the time, music sounds far better and more natural with just the mains and the sub firing.

Edit- And I really can't say enough positive things about Klipsch speakers. I've had my mains since the early '90s. I've test-listened all sorts of stuff up to about the $5,000 range, and nothing touches the sound reproduction of my 5.5s. They're super-efficient, and for what I generally listen to are simply thunderous. Horn tweeters are an acquired taste, but I can't listen to anything else now.

[Zarathustra]

I picked up a Sony BDP-550 on Black Friday at Circuit City for $319. Saved $80. I got the latest Rambo movie on Bluray for $15 at Walmart, and the new Rush concert Bluray. Both of these are STUNNING. The picture, of course, is amazing. More detail, clarity, and color. But I was most impressed by the audio. I'm really glad I didn't go with a cheaper player, otherwise I'd never hear the hi-rez audio. The biggest difference with the sound is in the surround channels. Compared to regular old Dolby Digital or DTS, the surround effect is much more immersive and spacious. The high frequencies (such as rain or cymbals) just shimmer. It makes the compression of the older DD and DTS very obvious. They sound muddy and muddled by comparison. Channel separation for all speakers is more discrete and defined, but (paradoxically) they all blend together better. What a huge difference!

I already had Rambo on DVD, so I decided to do an A/B comparison between DVD and Bluray. I hooked up my DVD player with component cables and my Bluray with HDMI. I put in both discs, and cued them up to the same place. This way, I could switch between the TV inputs with the remote, and see exactly the same scene on either player and format. Surprisingly, the difference wasn't as big as I was expecting with regards to the picture. It's actually quite subtle. But it's the difference between having an older glasses prescription where everything is slightly "fuzzy," and getting a new prescription where everything is nice and crisp. However, the subtlety makes me wonder if I'd see a bigger difference with a 1080p TV. When I did my research for buying a TV, everything I read said that a 720p 50" screen viewed from 10-12 feet away was indistinguishable from a 1080p screen--that the human eye couldn't resolve the difference. But now I wonder . . .

[Cail]

When I got home Friday, I found a package from Amazon on the front steps....My girlfriend ordered a 160gb PS3. It's set up now, and I've played with it a bit. Here's my thoughts.

- The WiFi is pants. Upgrades are done easily, and I'm willing to bet I can load my Knebworth Led Zeppelin concert onto it and finally watch it on a big screen.

- The UI is a bit clunky. Unless I'm missing something, there's no "power off" button.

- I need a new receiver. This really sucks, but to truly exploit this thing, I've got to have HDMI inputs on my receiver.

- I need to get off my ass, cut some holes in my sheetrock, and run the cables for my rear speakers.

- I must be spoiled by HDTV, but the picture quality isn't as stunning as I thought. Then again, the only BD I have at this point are Die Hard and Rambo III.

[Zarathustra]

Cail, are you talking about a different concert than the How the West Was Won DVD?

So you need a new receiver for the new hi-rez audio formats? Other than that, there's not reason to upgrade. You can just go straight to the TV with HDMI.

Cables for rear speaker? You don't already have rear speakers? (Then again, you did seem pretty adamant about 2-channel stereo. )

I agree about the picture quality. I was most disappointed with the increase in visual quality. Since I got the BD player, I've watched the new Hulk movie, Hellboy II, Rush S&A concert, Rambo, and Step Brothers. Unless you are watching a visually intensive movie, the difference is very slight. I was expecting a lot more. Honestly, I've seen over-the-air broadcasts that look much, much better than any blu-ray disc. Since this isn't a limit of the TV, and not a limit of the player, I think it must be a limit of the actual movies themselves. Perhaps directors aren't taking full advantage of the medium yet.

Another way to look at it is that DVDs actually look pretty darn good already. My TV upscales automatically, so I don't even need an upscaling DVD player. I think the jump from a 36" CRT to a 50" plasma is much greater than the jump from DVD to Blu-ray. Hopefully, as more filmmakers make films with Blu-ray in mind, this difference will increase.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

- The UI is a bit clunky. Unless I'm missing something, there's no "power off" button.

I have an 80Gb PS3, and don't have the PS3 BD remote, so I am using the PS3 controller. In the menu system, the far left option (Users? - not sure what it is called) has a Power Off selection. Also note that you can power the system on using the remote by hitting the PS3 button (as long as you aren't using the hard kill switch in the back of the unit).

I also strongly suggest you review the audio and video output options in the PS3 menu system. There were a few places I had to monkey with settings to make certain the PS3 sends the highest resolution sound output that my Sony receiver can support, no matter what kind of disc I play.

And FWIW, I have HDMI to the TV, and am using the optical cable from the TV to get the PS3 audio to the receiver. This seems to work well enough for me.... but I am no audiophile, so I probably don't know $#!t from Shinola.

dw

[Cail]

Cail, are you talking about a different concert than the How the West Was Won DVD?

Yeah, I've got the entire Knebworth show from '79.

So you need a new receiver for the new hi-rez audio formats? Other than that, there's not reason to upgrade. You can just go straight to the TV with HDMI.

I can pump the audio through an optical cable, but I'm really digging the idea of having everything pumped through the receiver through a single HDMI cable.

Cables for rear speaker? You don't already have rear speakers? (Then again, you did seem pretty adamant about 2-channel stereo. )

I wired my old house. Then I got divorced, lived in an apartment for 18 months, and have moved in with my girlfriend. Currently my surround speakers are boxed up in the basement. The room I need to wire here is on a slab, and has plaster walls and ceilings. It's going to be a major pain to wire it, and I haven't gotten to it yet.

I agree about the picture quality. I was most disappointed with the increase in visual quality. Since I got the BD player, I've watched the new Hulk movie, Hellboy II, Rush S&A concert, Rambo, and Step Brothers. Unless you are watching a visually intensive movie, the difference is very slight. I was expecting a lot more. Honestly, I've seen over-the-air broadcasts that look much, much better than any blu-ray disc. Since this isn't a limit of the TV, and not a limit of the player, I think it must be a limit of the actual movies themselves. Perhaps directors aren't taking full advantage of the medium yet.

I'm not sure about that. I think I've gotten spoiled by HDTV, and I think I need to look at a few other BDs (something made in the last two decades would probably be a good start).

Another way to look at it is that DVDs actually look pretty darn good already. My TV upscales automatically, so I don't even need an upscaling DVD player. I think the jump from a 36" CRT to a 50" plasma is much greater than the jump from DVD to Blu-ray. Hopefully, as more filmmakers make films with Blu-ray in mind, this difference will increase.

DVDs do look pretty good. My DVD player upscaled to 1080i, so I was dealing with good picture quality with that. I can tell you (like DW said) that in playing around with the menus and setting the PS3's default to 1080i (which is as good as my TV gets) made a huge difference just on the PS3's menu screen.

DW- Yeah, I've got the "power off" menu thing figured, it's just frustrating that there isn't a button on either the controller or the remote that'll do it.

[[Syl]]

- The WiFi is pants. Upgrades are done easily, and I'm willing to bet I can load my Knebworth Led Zeppelin concert onto it and finally watch it on a big screen.

It's not as easy as it should be. You'll need to check out redkawa.com and download their file server for PS3 (on your PC). The transfer rate is kind of ugly. And if it's a video file, you'll have to convert it to mpeg2 (why you don't have to do this if you load the file onto a DVD I have no idea).

- The UI is a bit clunky. Unless I'm missing something, there's no "power off" button.

Yeah, either hold down the start 'button' or hold the PS3 button on the remote and choose to shutdown that way

- I need a new receiver. This really sucks, but to truly exploit this thing, I've got to have HDMI inputs on my receiver.

I feel your pain. I only have one HDMI input on my TV, so whenever I want to switch to the PS3 from digital cable, I have to switch the connections manually. My receiver doesn't have any HDMI inputs, so I use the optical. And yeah, check your audio settings to make sure they match your receiver specs. I think the default VBR is pretty low.

I must be spoiled by HDTV, but the picture quality isn't as stunning as I thought. Then again, the only BD I have at this point are Die Hard and Rambo III.

Yeah, I don't think you're going to be impressed by any of the remastered stuff. Transformers looked pretty good. About the same quality as you'd get on an HD drama. Honestly, I think directors are leery of getting as much detail as you'd get on an NFL broadcast or such, for the same reasons that porn directors are.

[Zarathustra]

I think movies are going to look a lot better on BD once they are all digital, instead of film-based. I need to rent a recent animated movie to see if this theory holds up. I know that Cars looked damn good in the store display.

Is there anyone besides Lucas who is filming this way? Any specific titles I can get now?

[Cail]

List of major films shot in digital.

[dlbpharmd]

I bought a Sony 52" LCD this weekend that came with a blu-ray (originally Sony but they were out of stock so they sub'd a Samsung.) Also picked a Sony 5.1 surround sound in a box system. I have to do some minor renovations and wiring before I can get everything set up. The problem is, I'm completely retarded when it comes to this stuff. I've got the IT guy here at the hospital that's going to help me with the wiring, but when he talks to me about it, it's complete gibberish to me. For that matter, so is most of this thread. Anyway, hopefully within the next 1-2 weeks I'll have everything set up and ready to go. I've never had surround sound before and I'm really looking forward to it.

[Zarathustra]

DLB, are you talking about speaker wires? Or the connections between the TV, receiver, player? If you've got a receiver that accepts an HDMI cable, then this is going to be really easy. HDMI carries both video and audio (at the highest resolution for both). It looks like this:


You will need two cables, however, which aren't cheap. You can spend as much as $80 per cable, if you listen to the guys at Best Buy. Don't listen to them! Any new HDMI cable is going to be able to pass 1080p. You won't be able to tell the difference between an expensive one, and a $15 cable (if you can find one that cheap--Walmart usually has them for $25-$40).

So, connect your player to the receiver with one cable, then the receiver to the TV with the other, and you're done. They will be labeled "HDMI in" or "HDMI out" depending on which direction you're passing the data.

However, if your receiver doesn't have HDMI inputs, you only need one HDMI cable. Just connect it straight from the player to the TV (for video), then use a digital coax or an optical cable to connect the player to your receiver (for audio).

If you have already have component cables, and your receiver doesn't accept HDMI, you can use those to connect to your TV, but they will only pass an 1080i signal (interlaced) rather than a 1080p signal (progressive). 1080p is the best.

Now, it gets trickier when you're connecting a cable box. I don't have digital cable or HD cable yet, so I'm just using the standard cable with the little protruding wire that connects to old style TVs. Your new TV should have one of these inputs, too. But if you're going to watch HD cable channels, you'll have to get advice from someone else here. I have no experience with that. I think that the new cable boxes have HDMI, but I'm not sure. Hopefully, your receiver has multiple HDMI inputs. If not, your TV should have at least two.

Read the manuals. As questions. Let us know how it goes!

[dlbpharmd]

thanks, Malik. That's the best explanation I've heard so far.

I'm going to run by Walmart tonight and see what I can find in hdmi cables. I was looking at monoprice.com but with the holiday coming up I won't get them in time for the weekend (hopefully, that's when everything is going to come together.) Does it really matter about the gold plating?

The TV has 4 hdmi inputs and sound system has 3. I have Dish Network but so far they're not broadcasting much in HD so I'm going to wait on that for now.

Edit: I forgot to mention that currently the Dish Network HD DVR receiver only supports 1080i outputs.

[Zarathustra]

Wow, your receiver has 3 HDMI inputs? I'm so jealous! As I said up-thread, I had to go with a more expensive player in order to use my receiver's analog inputs.

Gold plating is nice, because of its high conductivity and resistance to corrosion. But even my $15 cable has gold plating, so it's not going to be a problem. I doubt they even make any HDMI cables without gold connectors.

I forgot to mention that currently the Dish Network HD DVR receiver only supports 1080i outputs.

Like I said, I can't offer much advice when it comes to cable or satellite, because I'm still using the "old school" round cable (BNC).

But if you're not getting HD programming, it won't matter about the resolution of your DVR receiver (though it does seem odd that you'd have one that supports HD if you're not purchasing HD programming . . . maybe satellite is different than cable). You'll be watching 480i, which will look much worse than Blu-ray, especially on a 52" HDTV. Depending on how well your TV upscales (takes low resolution and "stretches" it fit your screen), you may want to buy that HD cable package soon! (I still haven't bought one, because the offerings in my area suck.) The good news is that most modern TVs upscale very well.

Also, once you decide to buy HD programming, you'll be very happy with 1080i. I've only got a 768p TV, and I'm blown away.

One last point . . . it might be worth it to plug up the old "rabbit ears" and see what over-the-air HD programming you can pick up in your area. Some of the best HD viewing here in Lexington comes right over the airwaves for free. NBC looks the best with my cheap antennae.

I assume this your first HDTV, right?

[dlbpharmd]

Yes, it's my first. I've ordered the HD DVR and I should have it by this weekend. I've also ordered 3 HDMI cables from monoprice.com, but with the holiday coming up it'll be the first of next week before they arrive. Walmart only had 1 brand of cables and they were ~ $50 each.

[DukkhaWaynhim]

Are you saying you are getting your HD-DVR from Dish Network? If so, better check to make sure they aren't going to automatically charge you for HD channels on DishNetwork, as that is usually a package deal (HD-receiver + HD channel access).

If you are getting a 'regular' HD-DVR (i.e., not from DishNetwork), then you may be underwhelmed by its performance at first, since unless you will be getting local broadcast channels in HD (over an antenna, like Malik says) you have no need to record in HD, since you won't be getting TV in HD.

I have a combo HD-DVR / cable box provided by Comcast (my-rich-and-getting-richer cable company). This box has HDMI out, which I now have to send to my TV, as my Sony A/V receiver does not have HDMI jacks.

My next A/V purchase will definitely be an HDMI-capable receiver - I find I have to muck with settings more than I like when I use my PS3 to view BluRay movies, and it leaves me feeling like I'm not getting the best audio experience out of my BluRay...

dw

[Zarathustra]

Walmart only had 1 brand of cables and they were ~ $50 each.

Ouch! I lucked up and purchased mine on Black Friday for $15.

. . . it leaves me feeling like I'm not getting the best audio experience out of my BluRay...

You are correct. The hi-res audio is only available if you connect to your receiver with HDMI, or if you do what I did (explained above). Of course, your player must be able to decode the new hi-res formats. I believe the PS3 supports at least one of the new hi-res formats, but I forgot which. Maybe both.

Which player did you pick up, DLB? Samsung makes some good ones. Right now, if you're not going with the PS3 (a very good BR player!), Samsung, Panasonic, and Sony are the way to go if you don't want to spend a grand and still get an excellent player.

[dlbpharmd]

It's a Samsung. Circuit City had the Sony 52" 1080p 120hz Bravia on sale, and it came with a "free" Sony bluray. I took that ad to Best Buy and they matched the offer, except they didn't have the Sony bluray so they sub'd a Samsung. I saved $1700 from the original total sticker prices for both items.

DW, yes the HD DVR does come from Dish Network. I have to pay an extra $10 per month for HD programming.