Usivius wrote:it it all a dream ... which I still don't buy.
Maybe you're right, maybe it's not
all a dream. But there are definitely parts which we assume was real that have to be a dream. You can't see dead people in real life. So when he was trying out the drug in India, he may have entered a real dream parlor. But if so, he never came back out. So everything up to that point could have been real, but the rest could not have been. Mal *was* in the window.
Lore, I'm not saying you're wrong. I just--in Usivius's words--don't buy it. I understand the time dilation effect for nested dreams. This is why so much could be done in the nested dreams while the van was still falling. Time went "faster" the farther down into the levels you go, relative to the larger reference frame of the top dream. So whatever happens in the van would have "stretched out" effects in the lower dreams, becuase those events which happen in a relatively short time span for the van would span a much larger amount of time in the hotel, etc. This is why the water tilted slowly as the van swerved quickly. [I'm saying all this to get it straight in my own mind ... bear with me.
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Loremaster wrote:Everything in the fortress happens in a short time - so by the time the van flips over, it's probably too late to effect the snow region.
Yes, the entire snow fortress dream happens while the van is falling (I think). So the van wouldn't have any effect on the fortress because it's in freefall. But why don't effects in the hotel--which "contains" the snow fortress in the same way the van "contains" the hotel--affect the fortress? 3rd Rock kid ties up the dreamers, flips them over, transports them to elevator, etc. These movements aren't reflected in the fortress physics at all.
I assume your second point addresses my criticism that the nested dreams shouldn't have been affected by the higher dreams at all. I still don't think this has been adequately explained. When they are in a lower dream, they have no awareness whatsoever of the higher dream. So movement in the higher dream shouldn't affect the physics of the lower dream. I understand what Nolan was trying to say: it's akin to the experience we all have when we hear noises while we're asleep, or need to go pee, etc. These external cues are often incorporated into our dreams. Indeed, Cobb asked the van driver (who was the dreamer of the van dream) why he didn't go to the bathroom beforehand, because it produced rain in that dream. But these effects happen because our body is aware of external input, external to the dream. This is impossible in nested dreams, because there is no real body in the van, for instance, to feel the movement. Sure, while they are in the van dream, they could experience the illusion of inertia. But they would have to be
aware of this illusion in order for it to be an illusion at all. Once they leave that dream, there is no longer any awareness of it, and no cues traveling through your body independently of the dream (like we experience in real life).
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.